#1290 – The Expat Files: Why Expats Return Home, Cultural Challenges, and Life in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now as I wonder Hello there all you ex-pat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started You know getting that plan B going getting the hell out of Dodge is one of the biggest moves You'll make in your life one of the most important decisions you'll ever make for some people a lot of people it could be pretty scary though exciting along the way too and one of the questions I get so often is what percentage of expat gringos

[00:51] Actually end up staying that is living in Latin America permanently for the rest of their lives or to put it another way What are the chances you'll return to Cleveland with your tail between your legs? Wouldn't that be embarrassing? You'd have to suffer all the slings and arrows from your family and friends who said I told you so Hmm, and then you might wonder how many gringo expats stay in Latin America, even if they don't like it all that much Just because they don't want to face those I told you so who's back in Cleveland So on that note today, I want to thank listener Harry P from Lansing, Michigan Who sent me this brand new article and titled why do expats go home? Now as far as my opinion of this article one big takeaway is that expats could be pretty good liars

[01:40] Let's see what you think here goes and I'll paraphrase this as usual to cut out the boring parts it says According to a survey by the London School of Economics the average time a gringo expat spends overseas is about three years before going home Although some move to another expat location. They will spend less time in that second location than in the first Nevertheless a good proportion of expats who leave their country permanently at least that's their initial intent to leave permanently They end up returning home. It says the survey focused on British Canadian and Australian expats But the data squares with American expats, too It also says the average time frame for expats living in Southeast Asia is much shorter

[02:29] Than expats living in Latin America places like Ecuador Mexico Costa Rica and Panama In other words for expats who throw in the towel and go back home They last longer in Latin American countries than they do in Asian countries Hmm. All right me Johnny here. I think I can guess why For first world expats in Asia. It's a huge culture class. You're never accepted Not really even if you know the language Whereas in Latin America, the cultural divide is not so severe and if you learn the language You can actually hang with and be accepted by the locals But let's press on with the article It goes on to say in exploring the reasons for why expats return to their home countries They found that many of those leaving have a cover story for their departure that isn't often exactly correct

[03:19] They're not completely forthright about their underlying reasons Turns out they disguise their real reasons for leaving so they don't appear to be failures to other expats as well as to friends and Family members in reference to that persistent and sometimes annoying. I told you so crowd back home Turns out that no matter what part of the world expats end up throwing in the towel. Their cover stories are usually similar The excuses are generally the same Like for example mom and dad are sick back home and they need me there that one tops the list or there's an employment Opportunity back in Nebraska that just can't be passed up. They called me I wasn't looking for it and they gave me an offer I just couldn't refuse and here's a familiar one Our daughter or son is going through a difficult divorce and needs our support

[04:06] Then there's always that family tragedy excuse so and so when the family died and we need to sort out the will and the property I have to go back for an indeterminate amount of time. I'm the executor of the state I didn't ask for it, but they selected me and another very common excuse for the older gringo crowd is this one Martha and I just didn't realize how much we'd miss the grandkids Alright me Johnny chime in and on that one to me. That's the lamest excuse of all but gringos use it all the time Come on. You're gonna ditch that plan B You've been thinking about all your life for a few hours a week with your entitled snot-nosed grandkids who much prefer swiping on tiktok to looking at your wrinkly mug and even as pathetic as that sounds I am generally

[04:53] Diplomatic enough to keep my mouth shut though, not always Yep, excuses excuses expat thrown in the towel excuses. Let's hear another one How about this old standby? I need surgery or the wife needs surgery or my kid or grandkid or dog or a third cousin twice removed Back in Oklahoma needs surgery and the doctors down here aren't that great. I need to have it done up in the states Hmm. All right me. Johnny here again. You could tell that one's a whopper Since practically every expat and gringo who's been living down here a while knows the doctors here are just as good And the hospitals and clinics and facilities are sometimes even better than the ones you have back in your own hometown Of course, some of those excuses can be legit

[05:38] For example, if you're one of those persons who's got a certain condition or disease that affects one and let's say 100,000 people in that case, you probably shouldn't have come down in the first place But back to the article Basically, it says when expats throw in the towel Many of them are often not truthful about the reasons why worse yet, sometimes Mysteriously One of the persons in an expat couple who's been down a while will head back to the states for a surgery a wedding a funeral Or even a shopping spree and just never return leaving the other person in an embarrassing predicament How do you explain to your expat friends and buddies? Why your wife husband or significant other took a little trip to the states and just never came back

[06:24] So then what are those real hidden reasons why people leave? Maybe you guessed that the overwhelming reason for leaving is discomfort with the language or the culture in general Simply put ultimately for many expats. They simply feel like permanent outsiders They don't blend in with the local culture Don't speak the language and thus leads to severe bouts of homesickness and longing for that previous life back in their home country Even though it may not have been all that much fun or satisfactory The fact is as much as some gringos and expats complain They actually miss all that stress and long to get back on that old treadmill again. Can you believe it? Anyway to that effect the article goes on to say here are some representative comments from personal exit interviews with expats who decided to throw in the towel leave latin america and go back to their home countries

[07:17] Most of those departing expats asked to remain anonymous. So They could be more forthright about their answers. In other words, they don't have to bullshit to save face Let's start with mr. J. S. He says I miss the things I grew up with and have never really felt at home in ecuador I miss the way we celebrate christmas and halloween and thanksgiving I miss my favorite foods and i'm embarrassed to admit it, but I miss going to walmart All right, me john here. You know, mr. J. S in most other latin american countries aside from ecuador There are walmarts. I can't understand why there aren't any walmarts in ecuador though. I have read just recently They're on their way They do have plans So mr. J. S if you had just would have been a little patient if it stuck around for a year or so

[08:03] Anyway, i'm sure you long-time listeners have heard me say this before but walmart is latin america's number one employer With over 3000 stores down here. Truth is though as for me, I don't go in walmart much at all Walking in there seeing all that junk food Listening to the boston pops version of stairway to heaven and hotel california It's all too depressing though. I do hit up costco, which is called price mart down here I do have a membership there and though I thoroughly dislike jeff basos He like mark succotard has a face that's just begging to be slapped Even so I order from amazon. So call me a hypocrite guilty discharged But I digress as usual. Where were we? Oh, yeah unspoken reasons why gringle is an expat's throw in the towel

[08:50] All right. Here's a comment from an expat miss m who's moving back to the state She says I can't learn spanish even though I took classes. I'm tired of feeling like a child Basically, i'm a functional illiterate when it comes to learning languages I need to go home to be in a place where I don't feel like a retard Hmm me john again, you know, I hear you can't say retired up in the states Well, you can say it all day long down here Probably because down here there's so many of them So many gringles and expats especially on the tourist trail who qualify as retards too But you know the old saying god must really love morons fools and retards because he made so many of them You ever notice that like my mother would say if you have then you're probably not one of them

[09:35] She also said if you get migraines, at least you know, you got a brain Anyway, next we have an exit interview comment from mr. L Who's escaping panama? He says my wife gave me an ultimatum that I would either go back home with her or the marriage was over I do want to stay. I really like it here, but she's homesick and really wants to go. I chose the marriage over panama Though I really hate to leave. She wants out All right, me johnny chiming in again, you know That's a scenario i've seen play out many times and sometimes one of the two marriage partners decides They're gonna stay and the other one does leave and the marriage is over and sometimes yes Sometimes i've seen cases where a marriage is just about over up in the states And they come down to latin america as expats thinking that will repair it

[10:24] The idea is by leaving all the old baggage and friends behind they can hit the reset button and start over Unfortunately, i've not seen that work yet They might get another year or two out of it But starting out fresh in another country never seems to be a permanent cure for a rocky marriage All right, how about this exit interview from mr. T? No, not the mr. T the original blinged out a team guy Our mr. T is a wimpy expat white guy mr. T and his wife Living in roatan honduras. He says because of our language problem We always hang out with other gringos We go to the restaurants where gringos go and where everyone speaks english including the help We go to events that we know other gringos will attend and I have to admit We're kind of afraid to venture out into the real world, which is one of the reasons we came here in the first place

[11:14] He says it's time to be honest with ourselves. We just can't make it work Now that's a story i've heard at least a hundred times and here's an expat exit interview from mr. Bc. He says After being in medellin columbia for two and a half years I realize how much I miss my old friends my poker knife And playing golf with my old foursome the old routine really and our kids have never come to visit us Even though they promised they would I've heard that story a hundred times too. All right, then we have this gringo exit interview from miss d She says it's not easy to ignore your mother and your kids when they ask you to come home Every time you phone them up What can you say when your 90 year old mom says she lives in

[12:02] Continual fear of you being so far away in the third world Always thinking you're going to get kidnapped Extorted found in a ditch somewhere or sucked into a volcano or blown out to sea by a hurricane And since bad news about the third world is the only kind of news they print in her hometown paper. She thinks I'm bound to be next. It's only a matter of time Worse yet, misty says what can you do when you phone up your children and they say They feel like you've abandoned them All right. It's me again. Johnny. Here's my take on that. I have a 90 something year old mother, too When I was about to leave when I first came down. She had the same concerns I fixed that soon enough. You know what I did. I shipped her down a few times I showed her a few fun cool and safe places

[12:48] And now she's got nothing but good to say about latin america though. Occasionally. She still lays that Abandonment trip on me when she does I just change the subject. All right, how about this expat exit interview from mr. H a Also living in and now abandoning quenca. Ecuador. He says truthfully I simply can't hack it. That's the best way to say it My wife and I spend most of our time in front of tv watching us programs, which we mostly find boring and some we even hate That's a sign that you're really stuck in a rut when you're watching a netflix series One that you hate yet. You catch all the episodes We hardly ever go out even with other gringos. The problem is I wasn't happy back in arizona either I spent too much time complaining when I know I should just shut up

[13:34] I'm one of those expats you read about in social media a whining complainer Though maybe complaining is just my style. I'm just a miserable person no matter where I live Hmm. We all know somebody like that, don't we? Maybe even got one or two of them in your own family. I do and how about this one? Mr. W says i've lived in five different latin american countries I understand the desire to pick up and leave if you're not happy Some people like me are addicted to moving always looking for greener pastures Especially when you hear so many other gringos and expats talking about the advantages of other latin american cities towns and countries There's always one that's so much better or cheaper more beautiful or more welcoming than this one or that one

[14:22] There's always a place that's better than the town or city you're sitting in right now When you get together with a bunch of gringos and expats, that's the kind of gossip you hear It's the grass is always greener in another latin town or city syndrome He says after talking to many many gringos and expats at least one in four sometimes two out of four that's half Pick up and move at least once within the latin american country. They first landed in So then why do they keep moving around? Why do they keep relocating within the same country? Well, I guess it's a lot better than throwing in the towel and going back to cleveland or mawaki I've heard all the excuses why they want to leave the city or town they're in right now. It's too hot It's too cloudy. It's too buggy Too small too big too many expats too few expats too much noise too many street vendors

[15:12] Too polluted too muggy too many partiers too many stray dogs Too many english speakers too few english speakers too many backpackers too many cheap hostels too few cheap hostels Some gringo expats can be so picky And some you can never satisfy that said here are some exit interview comments from gringos and expats Who did not return back to their own country but relocated within the country they first landed in? for example, mr co says I thought I would like the big city life. I did enjoy the concerts the restaurants and all the rest after two years, however Of the chaos and noise. I knew I wanted a slower pace and somewhere to grow a garden So I moved to a farm 20 miles outside the big city and it's easy enough to pop in and out

[16:01] If I really need to get a nightlife fix And here's what mr R says who did the same thing He says I lived in quenca ecuador for a few years turned out to be too big for me I didn't have many expat friends there either because of my alternative lifestyle So I moved to vilcabamba even though it's more dangerous. I found many kindred spirits here How about this comment from miss a She says I always thought the perfect expat life was to live on the beach. So I did After six months, I was bored to death Because I also like going to the symphony art galleries and going to good restaurant I also need to be around a large and more diverse expat community So though sometimes latin american big cities are a little too congested and chaotic for me

[16:48] You can find nice quiet neighborhoods where a couple of blocks away. There's everything else you need So then what about expats who move to a latin american country? Decide they don't like it all that much and they move to another latin american country In other words, they're not going back to the state europe or canada. They're bound and determined To make their expat life work out Even if it takes bouncing around from one latin american country to another to find the right fit Take this comment from mr. J. B Who moved from ecuador to panama? He says not that I didn't like ecuador. It's just like the locals say it was Papa sin south A potato without salt too bland too slow too boring

[17:34] I just needed a little more action a little different scenery and It helps that i'll be a lot closer to the states in panama and a lot more easier and cheaper airline connections When I go back to visit my kids He says panama is a central hub for copa airlines and within two or three hours You could have a direct flight to almost anywhere in the state whereas flights to the states from ecuador are twice as expensive Twice as long in duration with lots of connecting flights and wasted time in airports All right me johnny here with a comment Personally, I always thought it was a bad idea to select your plan b destination based on whether it's got convenient flights back to the u.s Sometimes I look at it as a plus when it's a little more difficult to get a flight back to the states

[18:21] It's less tempting that way and here's an exit interview from mr. S. A who also lived in quenca ecuador and left for san miguel allende mexico He says I lived in quenca two years. I liked it well enough But I like san miguel mexico much better the expats here have more class and sophistication They have more money and a better lifestyle plus the fact that bars and restaurants and san miguel are cleaner Higher class and have better quality food and booze The manana time thing is half of what it is in an ecuador and they occasionally even have this thing called customer service Though I admit gringos have to have money to live here. It's twice as expensive as ecuador And the real estate prices are triple or more

[19:09] Hmm me johnny again san miguel allende might as well live in my jammy And here are some comments from mr. Jl who initially had his plan b in portugal Why'd he pick portugal? Because he read so many times in international living that the algarve coast of portugal on the metatrania is such a great place to live He says most of the expats in portugal are british and german And they pretty much disdain americans and almost never accept us in their crowd So he says that transpired for a year but found it way too expensive way too bureaucratic and just too isolating So I tried latin america first moving to quenca ecuador then panama city He says i'm on a budget and I find that most expat communities you find throughout latin america

[19:58] Are really overpriced tourist towns and if you had 10 kilometers in any direction All prices seem to drop 25 or 50 especially if you speak spanish So i've concluded if you want to live around expats and gringos higher prices are the tax you have to pay for the privilege Then there's this comment from perpetual expat miss w She says I visited at ekipa peru and fell in love with it. I moved there. There are almost no gringos here But i'm sure it'll catch on and be one of the next big things At first I lived in a beach town. There's not much to do in the gringos There were way too gossipy and just a bunch of drunks if you don't love water sports beach towns can be boring Now let's talk about expats who moved to latin america who always seem to be antsy

[20:45] They always feel somehow after leaving the first world that they're missing out So they try another latin american country or even a european or asian country and end up coming back To their original destination the original latin american destination For example, here are some comments from miss b who originally came from chicago down to quenca equador Thought her and her husband could do better. So they moved on In the end feeling they'd made a big mistake. They came back to equador. Here's what she says My husband and I decided we wanted to try a european experience not just a south american experience We love the culture and the pace of life there or we thought we did We moved to a little town in andalusia southern spain. We thought we'd found paradise

[21:32] Unfortunately, we were burglarized twice and my husband was mugged We also found spanish locals secretly and not so secretly hate americans and we weren't able to make any friends Besides that we didn't realize how bad the economy is in spain and that it's getting invaded by african and middle east immigrants There's extreme unemployment. It's just not a good situation at all It's like that all over europe. It's a disaster Anyway, she says we went back to quenca equador. We're happy to be back though a little worse for wear And here's some comments from mr Nc who also first arrived in equador and then he didn't like it much So decided to relocate to mexico since that's the destination of nine out of ten american expats

[22:18] He says I thought I would like san miguel de allende mexico But it turned out I really didn't the place is full of american phonies Who want to impress you with their big houses and how much money they have most of them appear to be alcoholics as well I visited there 30 years ago as an art student and have to say that the gringos have changed San miguel for the worse since then So I counted my blessings and moved back to equador. There are no gringos flashing their rolexes here And how about this comment from mr. En who moved from guadamala to columbia and back to guadamala again He says from what I read I thought medellin would be more modern and more like the us but after I moved there I found out it isn't and besides that I decided I don't want something like the us anymore

[23:06] I also found out that columbia is much more dangerous than guadamala the bad guys There are seriously more violent than they are in guadamala And what they don't tell you in those glossy magazines about columbia is there's terrible poverty You don't hear about it in the media hype They only show you those gringoized neighborhoods in medellin that look like miami But once you head out of those few nicer neighborhoods conditions are terrible and people are living in cardboard checks So we're back in guadamala now where we should have stayed all along And here's another comment from mr. R who also lived in equador decided he didn't like it Read all the media hype about how cool it is to live in portugal and found out it was pr bullshit, too He says we fell for the big talk about how great portugal is and that it's the place to be for gringos and expats and all that

[23:58] So once we settled in the algarve area We found out that the locals didn't like us at all and that most of the people there are european part-time expats So for half the year during the winter season the place just closes down It's a vacation area not a place where gringos and expats would find it nice to live all year round So we came back to equador our tails between our legs. We should have never left All right, me johnny here again enough said about that Pretty self-explanatory i'd say except There is something they're not telling you about the expats who are spouting off here Almost all of these guys whose comments are highlighted here are in their 60s and 70s And i've always said you could divide expats into three different groups by age

[24:46] You've got the 20 to 30 somethings And there really aren't many of those. They're the ones who usually end up working at those helicopter schools as english teachers They come down here for a year contractor. So they like it so much and they never leave But there ain't many of those because you have to be of a certain mindset in your 20s to leave the united states and say hey I'm ready for a great adventure and I have no money Wouldn't it be cool to be an english teacher and live just slightly above the poverty level backpacker style? So that's the expat age group from 20 to 30 They're a lot different than the age group. I'd say from 30 to 50 who generally have done. All right They've made their mark and made some money That group decided to throw in the towel because doing business is getting way too hard and they're getting taxed to death They're the entrepreneurial type and do start businesses once they get down here

[25:35] They're not the types to sit around on a beach and a hammock and blend in with the scenery They do things they get things done. They start businesses. They're risk-taking creative types Then there's that final group of gringos and expats delineated by age That'd be the over 50 or over 55 crowd mostly retired or nearly retired boomers with a nest egg Who come down as expats just expecting to live out their days in peace and fade into the sunset active enough But not going full steam. They just want to kick into a lower gear Many of them just wanting to escape the lunacy that's happening up in the first world They're not looking to change the world or in our rush to start a new business They just want to come down and live the good life nearly all of those comments. I read earlier in the show We're from expats in that age bracket Basically from expats in our late 50s 60s and 70 nothing wrong with that

[26:23] But as for younger expats, they might have some of the same complaints and concerns Even so if they get bored or disappointed they're quite active doing business hanging out making friends Exploring trying new things. So basically what i've observed in my 30 plus years down here Is that the people who do come down and after a while end up throwing in the towel going back home They're almost always the older more set in their ways expats It seems the less flexible you are the more likely you are to throw in the towel There is a certain type Mostly older guys and gals with a nest egg or receiving some kind of pension Basically the younger you come down here as an expat the more flexible and adaptable you are that stands to reason That's why the younger expat crowds have a much better chance of sticking it out permanently down here

[27:12] And it's mostly the older boomer expats who tend not to roll with the punches They're often the ones that don't make it past the first two or three years They end up going back to cleveland with their tails between the legs So is that going to be you are you going to be one of those? Hope not. I hate when that happens, but there is always that risk just saying You've been listening to the expat files living in latin america If you need some help with your own plan b we can schedule a one-on-one phone or skype consult Just send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to get on the waiting list for my next week long expat insider seminar in central america Where you're guaranteed to get a two to five year head start on your plan b. Send me an email the expat files at gmail.com