#1066 – The Expat Files: John McAfee, Class Differences, and Life in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came out to play and now that I wonder Hello there all you ex-pat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started today We'll start out with an interesting anecdote now. You probably heard just the other day John McAfee, you know of McAfee Antivirus fame and Bitcoin and cryptocurrency fame He was an early adopter who predicted Bitcoin would go to hundreds of thousands even millions of dollars in the future

[00:47] And so he was very outspoken about cryptocurrencies. He developed a few shit coins himself and the United States government Absolutely hated the guy because he had the money and the staff to travel around the world Continuously avoiding and refusing to pay US taxes for I think it was like eight to ten years And so in the meantime since he was a big fish with a big mouth The US government had it in for him. Oh, and he also ran for president a couple times on a libertarian ticket So as US will do when they're out to entrap somebody that's elusive like McAfee and who has lots of dough to stay lost They just threw the book at him and piled on the charges even false and crazy charges that could never be true So the US feds put out the word to friendly governments that they wanted them extradited at all costs It's obvious. They wanted to shut him up make an example out of them

[01:35] So that others with big dough wouldn't get the same ideas like for one preach that US income taxes were unconstitutional I mean look the US government can't have some popular billionaire Anarchist shooting his mouth off at every single interview in press conference saying federal US income taxes are fraud and legal theft Even though it's all true big brother. We'll try to muzzle people who try to spread the word It's not good You know to tell the truth when it makes your government look bad and man if they ever make a movie about him And they probably will I have a feeling the Hollywood libtards would botch it. They'd put the wrong spin on it Yep, Hollywood's a lost cause completely contaminated, but you knew that already right anyway as reported He offed himself in a Spanish jail cell in Barcelona And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because right before the covid it thing about year and a half ago now

[02:24] I actually scheduled an interview with John McAfee on this show the expat files living in Latin America Why because well McAfee lived a lot of his life in Latin America I thought he'd be the perfect guy to tell us how wealthy gringos and expats live in Latin America He always said he loved Latin American countries the most even though he'd been kicked out of a few and on the run And a few others he even spent some time in Cuba in a jail cell You might have heard that story when he pulled into Havana to dock his yacht Cuban officials boarded the ship found all kinds of guns cuz he did love guns They confiscated them all and put him in jail while trying to sort out what to do with him And by then the United States government was on his heels They put out notice that if McAfee landed in a friendly country that is friendly to the US They had orders or at least a lot of pressure to extradite him to the states to stay in trial for tax evasion

[03:15] Fraud money laundering and a lot of other trumped-up charges now you long-time listeners know that in the 1060 something shows that I've done. I've only had one person-to-person interview It was about five or so years ago with an international tax expert turned out. It was a dry and boring show I certainly didn't enjoy interviewing the guy and I'm sure many of you clicked to a different podcast or show or maybe Decided to clip your toenails or watch paint dry, so it was then in there I decided I would never have a one-on-one interview with anyone again on this show unless it was with someone Extremely interesting and controversial now I never mentioned this before but every week or so I get emails from people Asking to be a guest on my show and they're all of course trying to promote something a book class real estate Agriculture some kind of IT thing I get all kinds

[04:03] But I just don't bite because you never know if they're gonna turn out flat or just dead boring But McAfee well the world knows him as a rich extremely eccentric expat so I got with McAfee's wife She arranges interviews and stuff set it all up And you know since he's been on the run for a last couple years his wife gave me a checklist of the different tactics Security measures and ways we had to communicate for his safety He wanted to make sure no one could ever pinpoint where exactly he was broadcasting from but then the covid it thing came and All bets were off so in retrospect it was the luck of the draw that I probably missed out on One of the very last interviews he would ever give and though at the time we did shoot a few emails back and forth I was a bit concerned about one particular thing the guy would absolutely pepper his Conversations with f-bombs and I really didn't want that to get out of control or have to bleep things out every 30 seconds

[04:53] Or so I knew he was the kind of guy No one could pressure control or throttle and that's what made him such a great interview prospect besides the fact that he's lived In a number of latin american countries for a long long time although admittedly They all got kind of sick of him in the end because he'd come in with this huge expensive entourage Set up shop in some big luxury mansion shooting guns off partying all the time arm guards posted everywhere He certainly wasn't into anyone's idea of a low profile and that really was one of his biggest mistakes And what I wanted to talk to him about by the way So you could say part of his problem was he was addicted to the limelight You know strange things do happen when tech nerds Become famous in the media look at Elon Musk Bill Gates Jeff Bezos and Mark Suckerturk Anyway in the end a lot of us feel sad about what happened to McAfee the guy was very smart amusing and anything but boring

[05:45] I'm sure many people have a tinge of sadness right now He was one of a kind and was always willing to point out that the Emperor that is the US government had no clothes Funny thing though if some IT giant like Bill Gates or Mark Suckerturk pulled the McAfee and offed himself Not only would no one shed a tear, but some people would say what goes around comes around, you know karma It's just the universe putting itself back into balance speaking of high-profile tech giants that people absolutely hate Have you seen that something like a hundred thousand people have signed a petition urging Jeff Bezos to stay in space and never come back I kind of think everyone who signed that thing was an Amazon employee So there you have it a little behind-the-scenes story that was in the works But never happened and now I have for you perhaps the shortest email I've ever received this one comes from Jubal

[06:33] Jubiel he says Johnny how much do you pay your cleaning lady now? That was concise short and sweet, huh? Well Jubal as you might imagine the answer is not gonna be so short and sweet by the way You're the first Jubal I've ever met or have been in contact with Jubal hmm It's a biblical word right from the term jubilation in Spanish jubilation So how much do I pay my cleaning lady? Well for now? I've got her coming in two days a week She arrives at eight in the morning leaves at six at night cooks runs to the grocery store hardware store when I need her to Does laundry men's clothes and does not balk at all about doing toilets and windows in fact? She doesn't complain about anything and when I first hired her in the early days I'd occasionally test her by leaving money around just some change or a few bucks in the local funny money in the laundry room

[07:20] sometimes in a kitchen counter cabinet or in a pants pocket and Sure enough at the end of the day that money appears on the kitchen table now I mentioned she doesn't laundry, but she folds and irons clothes, too But as I learned a long long time ago when I first came down here to Latin America Maids and cleaning ladies will not move furniture and or appliances unless you tell them to oh and as mentioned in a previous show I did train her up so that she uses a completely different set of Trappos TRAP OS rags for the bathrooms versus the kitchen and elsewhere And I taught her how to clean and disinfect fruits and vegetables Cuz man believe me if you leave them to their own devices old Montezuma will set up shop in your kitchen so she works about eight or nine days a month depending on how many days in a month and when they fall and

[08:07] Latinos and latinas prefer to get paid every two weeks Kin Senna they call that the root word for Kin Senna Kinsay, which is 15 every 15 days so when I first hired her I asked her how much she wanted to get paid That's the best way to start the negotiation You know and she said she wanted 15 bucks a day But I knew she had a kid and a husband out of work and she had a raggedy old cell phone with a busted screen With a fading battery, so I had to get a hold of her through her husband or sister So I decided against paying her 15 bucks a day, and I raised it to 20 So she makes about 160 bucks a month working two very long ten hour days a week when I never did really negotiate her working hours She comes at eight and leaves at six automatically and as far as lunch She takes about ten minutes and goes back to work of course

[08:53] I supply the lunch, but she cooks it naturally oh and the funny thing is she doesn't eat What I eat when I sent her off to the big market or supermarket and tell her to buy some food for herself, too She buys bread fake juice tortillas mayonnaise Margarine yep margarine not real butter the locals here in Latin America Rarely eat real butter and though really good butter is available down here. It's four times as expensive as margarine What a shame huh? Oh, and she buys cookies and sliced lunch meat Uh, but hey as far as what the locals eat you're never gonna change their likes and dislikes So if you took a look in my refrigerator or cupboards You'd think that I had a crappy diet and was headed for heart attack hill that's why every week or so I let her go through the refrigerator and freezer to take home stuff that she bought or cook that's left over that I'll never eat

[09:40] Oh, and for sure she thinks based on what I eat that I'm one of those crazy ass eccentric gringos You know she actually cleans house for another single gringo one day a week a guy on the normal US American junk food diet Which is these days anyway a lot closer to the average Latino diet, too So naturally she thinks he's the normal one and I'm the oddball and to be dead honest I am in her eyes. How could I not seem like a nut job? That's what she's thinking I can tell but she would never say so not to my face anyway But who knows what she tells her husband because you know It's absolutely true that cleaning ladies maids gardeners etc after work when they get home They're bound to tell their husband wives family and friends about the habits of the gringos or gringas They work for believe me the friends and families are awful curious about us our habits and our lifestyles if our roles were reversed

[10:28] We would be too just natural human curiosity I guess on as far as the other single gringo guys she works for one day a week He pays her 20 bucks for that day too when I have to give props to the other gringo guy He bought her a new cell phone you see that's why Latinos love working for expats and gringos They're Latino and Latina bosses often treat him like second-class citizens in fact I've known some hoity-toity wealthy Latinos and Latinas in Guatemala and Costa Rica who actually make their maids and Cleaning ladies enter and leave the house through the back service entrance. Yep There are extreme class differences here and a lot of the wealthy classes, especially nouveau riche Love to rub it in but here's the thing it takes her from 45 minutes to an hour to get back and forth from her house

[11:14] To the more upscaled gated guarded areas where we live. That's two chicken bus rides both there and back So her transportation costs are around two bucks a day Oh, and the other thing is if you're having a Christmas party a Sunday barbecue Whatever you're cleaning ladies more than glad to come in to get the extra day and hours You don't know what a great help it is to have someone around clean it up after everyone When you've got a group of people over drinking and partying I mean really no one wants to wake up the next day to face the mess after a big party the night before Which brings us to an interesting aside now you hear people on the street and in the media Talking all the time about the 1% that evil 1% of rich people Of course you hear people talking about the point 1% too now You might be in the 1% or the point 1% but just what that means depends on where the hell you're living for example

[12:01] And I want you to pay close attention to this Let's talk for a second about what it takes to own a home if you're in the top 1% in other words What is the entry point for you in regards to home prices to be in the 1% of a particular area country or region? Well, let's talk about first world countries first at the top. The list is Monaco if you own a house. That's worth 26 million dollars or more in Monaco You're at the entry point for the top 1% value of homes in that country of Monaco now the entry point for the top 1% value of homes in Hong Kong's 7 million dollars in other words if you buy a house for 6 million You're not in the 1% yet 7 million. Yes in Hong Kong Okay, then the entry point for the top 1% of homes in London is 4 million dollars, Los Angeles 3.9 million

[12:54] New York 3.6 million. In other words if you have a house that's worth 3.6 million in New York You just entered the 1% Club for Miami. It's 1.9 million Vancouver 1.7 now Here's what I'm getting at the entry point for the top 1% of homes by value in Latin America is unbelievably cheap compared to the first world 1% Club In Latin America, it breaks down to this on the high end. You have Sao Paulo Brazil at 700,000 bucks that'll put you in the 1% Club there as well as in most places in Costa Rica and in tourist spots in Mexico Like Playa del Carmen and Cancun so you pop into the 1% Club at 700,000 bucks, but on average in most of all Latin America We're talking off the tourist trail now the entry point for the top 1% in the home market is a home worth

[13:43] 400,000 bucks. In other words if you have a home in most all of Latin America except Sao Paulo and the gringo tourist areas Worth 400 grand or more you're in the top 1% of homeowners in the region speaking of the entry point for the top 1% crowd Let's talk about the average annual 1% tuition at a private day school in other words, we're talking about the entry point for the top 1% of Tuitions at private daycare schools K through 12 well in New York to be in that top 1 percentile You'd enter at that point if you paid 51,000 bucks a year for your kids tuition for Los Angeles. It's 47.7 K in Miami. It's 30 K as the average 1% entry point for a private day school for

[14:29] Vancouver 28 K now as for Latin America when in Sao Paulo Brazil or on the gringo tourist trail in Costa Rica and Mexico, etc. The entry point for the top 1% in private day schools is 20 grand However, when in Latin America off the gringo tourist trail to hit the entry point for the top 1% of annual tuition at private day Schools is 6,000 bucks. You got that the difference between the entry point for the top 1% of Private day schools in New York is 51 K and off the gringo tourist trail in Latin America It's 6 K almost a tenth of that which brings us full circle back to maids and cleaning ladies as of 2020 the average angle cost of a living maid nanny or cleaning lady is in Los Angeles around 70,000 bucks in Paris France

[15:15] 48,000 bucks a year New York 45,000 bucks Berlin 36,000 bucks Vancouver, Canada 40,000 bucks Sao Paulo Brazil and on the gringo tourist trail Costa Rica Mexico, etc $9,000 a year and in the rest of Latin America off the gringo tourist trail around five grand a year about a 12th of what you'd Have to pay in Los Angeles for a living nanny maid or cleaning lady. By the way I was just talking to my sister the other day up in Chicago She tells me if you're living in a nice suburb or not exactly in the center city where rents are really high She figured she could get a nice two-bedroom apartment for around 1500 to 2000 a month. She's selling her house in the burbs She wants to move into a smaller apartment or condo She told me she's been looking for a couple of weeks now and the average rent for a two-bedroom

[16:02] 1200 square foot place is around 1800 bucks a month whereas downtown around the near north side apartment like that would cost around 2,500 to 3 grand a month now, we're not talking about the one percenters here, of course But when I was talking to her it reminded me of the stark Differences in rent and purchase prices here in Latin America. For example Bitcoin dance house He lives in a nice gated guarded community in the burbs about 20 minutes outside Guatemala City beautiful area Fantastic views a 3,500 square foot split level house nice backyard two-car garage Absolutely safe gated guarded community with fantastic views of volcanoes and mountains right outside the back porch now He's renting and for that he pays a thousand bucks a month and the owner not Dan pays the maintenance which I think is around

[16:50] 150 bucks a month. Oh and as for security There's a guy at the front guardhouse lets you in by opening the electric security gate and two security guards constantly patrolling the neighborhood on bicycles all that for a thousand bucks a month though I think Dan could even have made a better deal But most gringles and expats are not into haggling and bargaining especially in Dan's case He comes from Canada and a house like that up there would rent for at least three grand a month Oh and in Canada, you'd have a heating and air conditioning bill, too Especially a heating bill whereas Dan lives in the Alti Planone has no heating or air conditioning bill at all So that gives you an idea of the wide Variations and cost of living in the first world versus having your plan B off the gringo tourist trail in Latin America Oh and that house Bitcoin Dan lives in I'd say is worth on the market in Guatemala from three to four hundred grand now

[17:38] If that same house was in the burbs of Chicago or Montreal, Canada where Dan's from though You'd never have those fantastic views of distant volcanoes still a house like that in Chicago would certainly run around 800,000 to a million bucks by the way and data just out this week the medium existing home price in America is now 350 grand that's according to the National Association of realtors The most alarming thing is that in the past year in the states real estate prices have increased 24% that's the highest rate in history Yeah, right and Tweety Bird yelling at the thread says they're holding interest rates to 2% What a bunch of pustulent lying a-holes, but you knew that already now I remember I was talking about my sister saying the average two bedroom rental in the burbs of Chicago is around

[18:23] 1800 a month well in Latin America off the gringo tourist trail a similar place in a nice safe even gated guarded community Well anywhere from 400 a month if you're a good negotiator to maybe six fifty a month and less a lot less if it's One bedroom, so there you have it some up-to-date cost of living information here in Latin America Having a plan B down here in Latin America looks better and better all the time doesn't it? So how is your plan B coming speaking of plan B's real imaginary or just wishful thinking? With labor costs going way way up in the US and Canada due to stimmy checks that pay more than real jobs Well as you know in Latin America and the rest of the third world there aren't no stimmy checks at all But because of all those worldwide huge supply chain problems inflation is raging everywhere in the first and the third world

[19:09] So people who spend a quarter to a third of their income on food That'd be about 80% of Latin Americans and third world people in general. They're really hurt and believe it or not yesterday I just heard the fact that 60% of Latin Americans are overweight or obese Yep, lots and lots of Oprah clones around it's something you see everywhere But no one comments on it except behind closed doors though here in Latin America The word Gordo or fatty is a term of endearment though not for women just men in fact I've met dozens and dozens of Gordo's fatties over the years no judgment or insult intended at all It's just a nickname a fat guy picks up as a kid like junior or whitey Red or mouse or gimpy unlike up in the states a childhood nickname is never a slam slur or insult

[19:55] But also unlike in the states here in Latin America those childhood nicknames will stick to a person the rest of his life But man, you call somebody fatty or Oprah up in the states You might be looking at a knuckle sandwich, or she might sit on you anyway as Inflation rages you can bet on the fact that obesity numbers will go down here in Latin America It just has to happen look at Cuba and Venezuela in a street shot of Caracas Venezuela The people look pretty fit though in the first world with this covidia thing It's been just the opposite in fact with covid and everyone fiddling with their smartphone on the couch Flicking through Netflix shows and munching away on Cheetos That'd be Cheto's here in Latin America as a result the average American's net weight has in fact increased You know how people say that two most difficult common habits to break quitting smoking and losing weight

[20:41] Well the secondary effects of higher and higher inflation Just means that Americans in first world people will get fatter because they're sitting home and eating junk food They can still afford that kind of instant gratification because they only spend something like 6% of their income on food So even if food prices double Americans will be irritated, but it won't ruin their American junk food lifestyles But Latin Americans and people in the third world will eat less junk food and more local fruits Vegetables grow more stuff in the garden, etc Unfortunately, they'll eat more Tyson chicken because they're cheaper than homegrown driveway chickens though I've noticed driveway chickens are on the comeback trail after all They're very low maintenance and do a fantastic job of ridding the art of bugs beetles and worms though I have to ask you doesn't it seem funny not ha ha funny But slightly weird that Tyson chicken available at all the big supermarkets, especially Walmart's the biggest employer in Latin America

[21:32] How you have to ask can they get those chickens from the United States where labor and feed are expensive kill them then freeze them Ship them 2,000 miles unpack them weigh them and remark their packages in Spanish and still undercut the price of local chickens I don't know something's wrong with that equation, but I do know this There's no doubt Americans are getting fatter, but they're also getting stronger, too Just a couple of years ago. It took a strapping adult to carry ten bucks worth of groceries today a five-year-old can do it Hmm getting back to one percenters or even point one percenters the rich folks average people just love to hate You know the average American is so ignorant about mathematics that goes for geography as well and all that goes out in the rest Of the world the stuff CNN and the lamestream media choose not to show you speaking of the one percent

[22:18] Did you know if you make thirty five thousand dollars a year you just entered the top one percent of all income earners worldwide? So the next time you say or hear someone say why don't they just text the shit out of the one percenters the rich people? Well guess what those malignant politicians are already doing that to you and they have been for the last 50 or so years So basically I'd have to say that 99 percent of the people listening to this show are those damn one percenters Now I've said about that then comes this email from Mary in Toronto. She says Johnny I've heard you say in a past show you have a certain amount of haters well, so do I and I don't even have a podcast Mine come from being on Twitter. You wouldn't believe the hate mongers that troll that place She says Johnny. I'm a child psychologist lucky enough to work at a private school I could never work in a public school not with all the cancel culture mobs out in full force

[23:05] You know Johnny everyone that leaves a good solid legacy or mark in the world Has to have some enemies incidentally it helps to have enemies while love is a beautiful emotion The brutal truth is far more inventions empires breakthroughs books written wrongs Righted fights one and ambitions realized have been out of vengeful desire to prove some critic Hater bully or a whole wrong all the love in the world Johnny cannot slay a perceived enemy and love may be grand But it's fleeting though hate revenge and payback have always stood the test of time sometimes almost genetically passing through multiple Generations just think about it Johnny if the world was bathed in love books in Hollywood movies would be dead boring if love and goodness

[23:50] prevailed some bad boy would just have to emerge to break the monotony making life painful for some but much more interesting again Keep the good work coming Johnny signed Psychocologist Mary I like that well Mary Thanks for those words of wisdom that reminds me of a quote from good old Winston Churchill. I think he's been canceled now They're pulling his statues down to huh man. I'll tell you I'm so glad I live in Latin America anyway He's quoted as saying nothing in life is so exhilarating than to be shot at and missed Man is he right about that? You know I've been shot at twice that I know of once in Venezuela Where someone shot and blew out my car tire while I was driving it and another time I heard the bullet whiz by my head It came that close I'll tell you nothing else can kick your adrenaline into high gear like a near miss from a firearm

[24:40] Moving on speaking of a subject that's near and dear to the hearts of almost everyone who's working on a plan B This one's from Gladys hmm. I have an ant named Gladys somehow first world people Americans Canadians etc Don't name their kids Gladys anymore I don't think I've ever met a first world Gladys who was under 70 years old but down here in Latin America Gladys is a very popular name I've met quite a few of all ages anyway Gladys says Johnny. Here's a Spanish language tip I took a crash course in Spanish before graduating college It wasn't even a couple of weeks into the course before my professor took me aside and recommended I changed to a pass fail grade so as not to ruin my GPA Like you've described yourself Johnny as a language dunce So am I some people just don't have the aptitude to learn a foreign language

[25:28] I guess although since I have no trouble with other sort of difficult skills like playing the piano and portrait painting But as for languages don't get me started in that respect I'm totally unlike my ex-husband who could curse fluently in seven different languages Then she says after arriving in Latin America I soon realized that the best way for me to learn the language was to just keep using it over and over and Reading classified ads comic books and watching novellas with subtitles and finally after a couple of years I had a breakthrough Conversing with my maid my advice don't ever be afraid to try unlike many critical gringos Latinos will never laugh or make fun of you no matter how badly you mangle the language Fortunately, most Latinos don't mind speaking to gringos and even seem to enjoy conversing with a stumbling want-to-be Spanish speaker

[26:13] But you never know just when you're gonna reach that certain level of competency Where that breakthrough comes there are all kinds of Spanish teachers online, and you know what angers me about them They keep talking about a favorite Spanish word for the day It's a cute and fun memory aid but doing it that way will take years for you to have a decent vocabulary One big problem I see is that new Spanish speakers think that vocabulary is everything well It's not enough my words for the day are the ones I actually use on the street along with nouns and verbs Just because you have a bunch of proper words at your command doesn't mean you can communicate them in a coherent sentence It's like a guy in a baseball game who can really hit but he moves like a snail and courses like dual lingual help But they're weak in teaching vocabulary I guess you can't have it all in the real solution is to have plenty of boots on the ground in an area

[27:01] We don't have too many gringo English speakers to lean on that's another problem I've noticed when gringos are around we always default to English that doesn't help and though some people look at Google Translate as A miracle app I've noticed for many Americans down here is turned into a crutch reminds me way back in my high school math class When calculators were first coming in and the teacher wouldn't let us use them Well, it seems we're the only ones left in the world who know how to do the math with pencil and paper Google Translate is turning out to be a lot like that though. Sometimes I get lazy and use it myself You've been listening to the expat files living in Latin America If you need some help with your own plan be we can schedule a one-on-one phone or Skype consult Just send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to get on the waiting list for my next week-long expat insider seminar in Central America

[27:50] Where you're guaranteed to get a two to five year head start on your plan B Send me an email the expat files at gmail.com