Episode Summary
In this episode, Johnny Mueller shares his experiences living and working in Latin America, highlighting the cultural and linguistic diversity of the region, particularly among indigenous communities. He discusses the prevalence of indigenous languages like Kachikel, the educational disparities between Latin America and the United States, and the unique social dynamics in local markets and stores. Johnny also reflects on the cultural significance of titles like 'doctor' and 'sensiada' used by locals to address people, emphasizing the blend of humor, respect, and social hierarchy in everyday interactions.
Johnny also discusses the social dynamics and cultural nuances of having a bachelor's degree in Latin America, highlighting how it elevates one's social status and is often used as a form of informal marketing by local vendors. He contrasts this with the broader context of indigenous populations in the region, who are often the poorest and most marginalized but remain optimistic and hardworking. The segment also touches on the challenges of communication and the humorous misunderstandings that arise from language barriers, as well as the practical realities of living with certain amenities like jacuzzis in the region.
In this segment, Johnny recounts Dave's experience with a Decameron membership, which involved a significant financial commitment and a complex process of trying to cancel it. Dave initially felt buyer's remorse after signing the contract, which included a clause for withdrawal. Despite the clause, the process of canceling was challenging, involving multiple phone calls, negotiations, and eventually a formal letter. Although the money was eventually returned, Dave concluded that the membership was not worth the long-term commitment and the limited vacation time it provided.
Johnny also discusses the challenges of getting money back in Latin America, particularly with regard to VAT and return policies. He explains that it's very difficult to get a refund because the government collects VAT on all purchases, and once that tax is paid, it cannot be reclaimed. He also shares a personal anecdote about a gringo who had trouble getting a replacement phone due to a contract clause that allowed only five days to make a claim. Johnny emphasizes the importance of checking return policies and highlights the cultural differences in customer service and bureaucratic processes in Latin America.
In this segment, Johnny discusses the challenges expats face in Latin America, particularly with consumer rights and customer service. He shares a personal anecdote about a frustrating experience with a phone company, highlighting the difficulties of getting support and the importance of being proactive. He also contrasts this with past experiences, where consumer rights were even more limited, and emphasizes the need for expats to be vigilant and take initiative in dealing with local businesses and services.
Topics
Cultural and linguistic diversity in Latin America, Indigenous languages and communities, Educational disparities between the U.S. and Latin America, Social dynamics in local markets and stores, Cultural significance of titles and language use, Social status and education in Latin America, Cultural nuances and informal marketing, Indigenous populations and their resilience, Language barriers and communication challenges, Practical realities of living with amenities in Latin America, Buyer's remorse, Contract clauses and cancellation process in Latin America
Chapters
00:00:00 Opening 00:00:06 Johnny's Experience with Indigenous Languages and Cultural Immersion 00:00:14 The Educational Disparity and Cultural Perception of Higher Education 00:06:00 The Value of a Bachelor's Degree in Latin America 00:07:05 Social Class and the Bachelor's Degree 00:08:58 Indigenous Populations and Their Resilience 00:10:37 The Reality of Jacuzzis in Latin America 00:12:01 Dave's Regret and the Decision to Cancel the Membership 00:13:09 The Discovery of the Withdrawal Clause 00:14:06 The Initial Attempts to Cancel the Membership 00:14:49 The Final Negotiations and the Return of the Deposit 00:17:38 Reflections on the Experience and the Value of the Membership 00:18:42 Money Back Guarantees in Latin America 00:18:46 Difficulty in Getting Refunds 00:18:53 VAT and Its Impact on Refunds 00:18:59 Return Policies in Latin American Stores 00:19:05 Return Policies in First World Franchises 00:19:10 In-Store Credit vs. Cash Refunds 00:19:12 Challenges in Getting Physical Money Back 00:19:18 Reasons for Difficulty in Refunds 00:23:43 Frustrations with Quick Service in the First World 00:23:48 The Persistence of First-World Habits 00:23:52 Expat Bans and Close Calls 00:23:57 Personal Experiences with Local Services 00:24:01 Sharing Stories with a Friend 00:24:04 The Expat Insider Tour 00:24:09 A Stalemate in the Phone Store 00:24:16 The Role of Security Guards
Transcript
Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.
[00:00] South of the border, down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came out to play and now as I wonder Hello there all you expat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here So let's get started a few days ago. My cleaning lady got all prostered She grabbed my arm pulled me into the bathroom and started pointing at things She looks down at the shower stall then at the toilet in the sink and she goes a hacks a hacks I'm thinking she speaks Spanish decently
[00:47] But her native language is one of those Mayan indigenous languages called Kachikel I believe something and why is she speaking to me and Kachikel man my Spanish isn't even a hundred percent Kachikel by the way the consensus is there is around 25 indigenous languages in Central America all because so many hundreds of years ago There were ancient Isolated Mayan tribes and today the ancestors of many of those tribes who still wear the indigenous outfits on occasion Speak those languages sure most of them speak Spanish too But they prefer their indigenous language when hanging out or working together and my cleaning lady She speaks Kachikel owned by the way the last cleaning lady I had her native language whiskey Che and you know the older ones often speak Spanish very badly and the younger ones know Spanish pretty well depends how many years they
[01:38] Went to school by the way Most all indigenous kids go to those crappy decrepit public schools and many of them on the boonies only go for a couple of years So at school, they'll speak Spanish and at home their native language and in my maid's case Kachikel and you know to us gringos it might as well be Klingon because we don't understand a word of it In fact when you go into the markets and a little Candace That's Tienda by the way with a tea Tienda that just means little shop They'll be conversing with you in Spanish says you do your deals with them and make small talk Then they'll say something to a fellow worker or to a guy in the Tienda next door In a language you have never heard before one of those 25 or so indigenous languages In fact, there's one little neighborhood Tienda a frequent quite a bit. Yep
[02:26] No matter where you live in Latin America, you'll have your little local favorite stores, too Even though like me you'll probably go to one of those gigantic markets a couple times a week Even so you're gonna run out of stuff now the big market. I like to go to is at least 25 miles away I find I only have to go there maybe every couple weeks and man do I stock up anyway There's this one particular little Tienda Maybe two miles from the coffee fields were lately I've been doing this show It's run by three extremely happy little indigenous guys who are joking around all the time now I doubt if I was four foot nine I could be that happy when you walk in they're always laughing having fun and screwing around And you know, they're too young to be the owners of the place So I doubt they make the minimum wage less than 300 bucks a month
[03:13] But still they're just always smiling having fun and well happy and not dumb happy either They're smart kids and since I'm the only gringo who's ever been in the place how I know that they told me so They joke with me too, but with extreme respect. In fact, they always greet me by saying hola doctor or dr Ado and when I leave they say los vemos or adios dr. Ado What they're doing is great marketing and they don't even know it. They've got no idea every time I come in They automatically add the term doctor to my name just because I'm a gringo Now they used to add the word listen Seattle to my name, but I guess I've been promoted to doctor now That's happened in the last couple months. At first. I thought they were joking with me or just making fun of me
[04:01] But it started to make sense when I saw how these guys addressed other people who walked into their little store Now they treated their indigenous customers like friends But when a Latino would come in especially Latino with a car They'd do the same routine Kind of and they do get a lot of Latino clients with decent cars because this little tien does that a crossroads Near a lot of upscale gated guarded communities So for example, if a young latin lady drives up in a Honda and she gets out walks in buys something or gets a recharge on Her phone the little guys will say with a big genuine smile Hola la sensiada and when she leaves they'll say no suvemos la sensiada or when dia Sensiada, and if a guy pulls up with a decent car and walks in they'll say hola
[04:50] Sensiado and we leaves no suvemos la sensiado or when dia Now you've probably heard me talk about the lesson Seattle and lesson Seattle thing if you've been listening to my past shows it's a title that's very frequently used down here for people who graduated with a bachelor's degree an Undergraduate university degree a bachelor's degree in anything. It doesn't matter. Of course in the States and in the first well Nobody really gives a rip about an undergraduate degree. It's nothing and unless it's in the hard sciences It's like a high school diploma by the way You heard me mentioned in a past show that up in the states forty percent of working adults have a bachelor's degree or better Whereas down here in Latin America less than two percent of people have a bachelor's degree
[05:35] That's one hell of an educational disparity and one big reason they call it the third world I know I know you're thinking university degrees don't mean crap these days That's right, especially bachelor's degrees unless they're in the hard sciences and spoken about that before But down here in Latin America doesn't matter how worthless your bachelor's degree It doesn't matter that you're 35 years old still living with your mother and working at Starbucks You still got that diploma The family's bust in their buttons with pride because you're probably the first guy to ever graduate from college In fact down here. There's like a 40 year lag time. It's like a flashback to the 60s However back then in the states if you got a bachelor's degree It pretty much did guarantee you a decent job in your own career
[06:21] And even if you did get a useless degree in psychology Sociology art music or political science you could always find a teaching job anyway here in Latin America if you get a bachelor's degree you Automatically get a formal title and when introduced or addressed by the rest of the people who don't have degrees That'd be the other 98% of Latin Americans You'll be called less sensiado or less sensiada if you're female and not just informal situations either at the tienda the gas station Even the dry cleaners if the attendant knows you've got a bachelor's degree You'll get addressed as the sensiado or the sensiada So people with a bachelor's degree automatically are elevated to a certain social class here
[07:11] And some of them are stuck up and pretentious about it if you can believe that though us long-term expats laugh and call it polishing the turd and It doesn't matter even if they don't have a job in their field these Bachelors degree holders will get business card and since stationary printed up saying listen Seattle this or listen Seattle that but I digress as usual The point I'm getting here is that the three little indigenous guys who address me as Doctor and they do it every time address certain others as listen Seattle's So they're making a judgment call based on the way a person looks and what is cars like yep They too are polishing the turd if that's what it takes to make the customers happy, right? And believe me when people hear that they walk out with a little spring in their stuff
[07:59] But a big smile especially the ones that don't have a degree and buy into that stupid listen Seattle crap Is that not great marketing and you know within two blocks? There are three other little tandas that sell pretty much the same stuff and guess who gets all the business Meanwhile every time you walk in the store You'll hear them joking between themselves and kachikel or kiche or whatever Until I walk in or another customer and they'll say hola doctor or ola listen Seattle and you know what? Everyone smiles and no one ever corrects them By the way between these three guys, they know about 20 words of English Naturally, it doesn't come out right and I have a hard time not cracking up So for them what started as a joke handing out exaggerated titles that almost no one has achieved has helped their business a great deal
[08:47] Because remember what I said only two out of a hundred people That's one out of fifty has even a bachelor's degree here in Latin America Now the point is actually there's more than one point here the indigenous Populations in Latin America are the poorest and most downtrodden and most ignored and suppressed here in Latin America Yet most remain ever so happy and optimistic and don't think for a minute. These guys are dumb They're not and they're terrific workers In fact some of the best workers I've ever hired have been indigenous guys and gals like my cleaning lady In fact, most of my Latin American cleaning ladies have been indigenous Like the one that pulled me into the bathroom the other day and kept on saying a hacks a hacks I'm sure I give her the dumbest kind of rain man look imaginable Because I know absolutely zero words in key che or catch you go
[09:35] Whatever then strangely enough she came back the next day Sat me down the kitchen open up her purse and pulled out a can of get this Ajax kitchen cleanser, you know Ajax. Otherwise known as a hacks a hacks Talk about clueless gringos man 27 years and I still don't know Ajax from earwax By the way a can of Ajax in the hands of an indigenous cleaning lady is a double-edged sword Because you see if you've got a bathtub shower or sink, that's brilliant or highly polished She'll quickly destroy the factory sheen. You know what I mean. It's like sandpaper, right? Expanded he knows all about that. He had a nice big six-person jacuzzi at his house for the first couple of months
[10:24] It was nice shiny and brilliant looking a couple of thousand bucks worth of glassy acrylic and chrome Well now let's just say he keeps the cover on it all the time Oh and by the way about having jacuzzi's here in Latin America Yeah, upscale Latins, you know upper middle class and wealthy ones often have a spa or jacuzzi and it's always destroyed and scummy After about a year. In fact, I've had a few installed in new homes myself and they're just like swimming pools You end up using them for the first couple of months and then seems like only one company's over It's like that old saying about married life I'm sure you've heard it if you take a dollar put it in a jar every time you've had sex do that Just for the first year then take one dollar out Every time you have sex thereafter and you'll never end up emptying that jar
[11:13] I actually heard Groucho Marx say that on one of his old TV shows. Hmm Sounds depressing, huh? Not a very positive statement about married life. So is it true? Well, you tell me but I bet you won't okay moving on I've been getting a trickle of emails from people who want me to finish off that Decameron story remember the one I told maybe a month or so ago a boots on the ground Decameron story from longtime listener Dave if you remember he and his wife bought into one of those Decameron package deals in Colombia, you know, that's the Casa Matrice of the Decameron Casa Matrice means Homebase or where the idea was born and gringo Dave and his Colombian wife who live up in Canada Most of the time heard the spiel from the vendors and decided to buy into that membership club
[12:01] So after signing a contract in spending some thousands of dollars Dave got cold feet was having a bad case of buyers remorse So let's pick it up there for part two of his Decameron story Alright, Dave starts by saying when we last left you Johnny I was bravely freaking out about having blown 6,000 bucks on a vacation plan that extended way into the future based on a point system You utilize along the way and I hope to use them all if I live long enough So after arriving back in gringo land, yeah, that would be Detroit called the happiest place on earth, you know That was our first stop on the way back and experiencing a pleasant 30 degrees Celsius temperature change That's 90 degrees Fahrenheit
[12:48] We made our way back home to Canada all the while But without much hope I began wondering if there might be some way to get out of that Decameron agreement Maybe some kind of buyer's remorse clause like with the old vacuum cleaner salesman back in the day at this point 24 hours had already passed since we signed so I figured I was probably out a lot But when I pulled the contract out lo and behold, there was a direct show de retracto right of withdrawal or retraction clause Alright, it's me Johnny again now if you're buying a cell phone for example or doing a contract for an internet service if there is such a clause it Just might be called a reclammo reclammo. Like for example, I might say
[13:33] Then a cinco Diaz for reclamos meaning you have five days to get out of or dispute the contract So it's called the retro de retracto or reclammo and note that the word Reclamos sounds a lot like reclaim So even if your Spanish sucks, you can check a contract to see if that words in there Then Dave goes out to say better yet. We had five days to invoke this right and A man of action that I am I immediately asked my wife to call the hotel and see if we could get our money back We had the direct number So my wife called and explained that we wanted to cancel but was told there was nothing they could do at the hotel We'd have to contact the head office in Bogota and so it began. She called Bogota Details were recorded and my wife was told that someone would call her back. Sure thing, right? This is Latin America
[14:24] I figured they were just trying to run out the five-day clock on us But lo and behold that a very next day someone did call back all told we were called back four times each time They would either try to persuade us to continue with the original deal or offer us some kind of different spin on it Seems like they'd try anything to hang on to all that money or at least our $1,800 deposit none of the new offers However interested us and my wife reiterated that we really did want all that money back. Okay, it's me Johnny again Now remember she's doing all that in Spanish because you know D Cameron is a Spanish all-inclusive hotel chain So good luck trying to pull some of this stuff off yourself unless you've hired a bilingual translator So then after going through all that on the phone and exhausting all their tricks
[15:13] They finally agreed to return a deposit, but they said they could not credit my credit card They would have to transfer the funds to a bank account a Colombian bank account only Fortunately, my wife still maintains an account in Colombia and by now four days had passed and all the while I'm thinking in the back of my mind. This is Latin America and they said I've got five days to do this Yep, I'm thinking the clock is ticking that said as an energized first world enterprising high-powered gringo businessman At least that's how we're viewed in Latin America I took charge and told my wife we didn't have much time to get this done We have to do this right the first time or surely the los sientos señores. No, lo puedo will follow So I did what any first world gringo would do
[16:00] I instructed my wife to write a letter with all the details point by point be sure to say this say that and that This is what we said and so forth and to show me the draft of the whole thing before sending though I'm somewhat embarrassed to say that when my wife came back a half hour later She had written up a very professional letter better than I could have done especially since it was all in Spanish She wrote it with all the necessary facts in the perfect Complementary flowery and formal style used for communication business letters in Latin America They're not quite like your standard English business letter You know, in fact, I have to compliment my wife on her patience and her handling of the matter She stood her ground and didn't budge an inch through the whole process even as they hit her with everything
[16:46] They could to try to talk her out of canceling Though I shouldn't have been surprised My wife had worked for 15 years in administrative positions at the largest bank in Colombia and was used to investigating resolving customer complaints at corporate matters just a touch of my gringo arrogance, I guess It's easy to forget. She's more than competent in her native country and language Since up in Canada, I'm the guy that handles those kinds of transactions So then later in hand, we signed a copy with banking details to Bogota via email Called to confirm that they'd received it and we were told the money would be transferred within 30 days I didn't hold my breath though, but sure enough before 30 days were up. We did have the money back in our account
[17:32] What a sigh of relief So in the end, I'd have to say that despite not going through with that decameron membership It was a valuable experience. We were treated friendly enough and they were competent and professional enough How could we complain we did get our money back? I guess for me the sticking point was that I'm still gonna have to work for another five years at least and have only A few weeks per year for vacations. So the deal really didn't make sense Guess I jumped a gun and despite that the membership was more expensive than it was a few years ago As you mentioned on your previous shows, I still think people with time and flexibility could make a very good option out of it Anyhow, so much for this cautionary tale and I hope it has some value to your listeners By the way, our next trip will be to Guatemala in February 2017, but not at the Decameron
[18:24] Cohello suave Johnny signed Dave Well, thanks for that Dave and I'm gonna post the contracts Etc. And the multi vacation is decameron club plan up on my youtube channel So when the show comes out on YouTube people can see what some of that paperwork looks like Alright speaking about money back guarantees in Latin America It's very very very difficult to find a place that'll give you your money back. No questions asked now That's not safe. You're buying a product. You can't get an in-store credit because there are plenty of places Especially first world franchise clothing stores and hardware stores and such Sears Costco Walmart that have a week or two week or even a month return policy
[19:10] But you only get an in-store credit like I said, it's almost impossible to actually get physical money back and There are some good and not so good reasons for it. First off money back guarantees are new to Latin culture They were brought down as policy with the first world franchises starting with Sears office depot ace hardware Costco and Walmart and so the other stores the local competition have pretty much had to fall in line But they have done so kicking and screaming believe me and they'll try to get out of it any way they can So when you're buying anything, especially big ticket items like appliances computers TVs or cell phones Check out the return policy it'll almost always be posted near the checkout or cashier and sometimes when it comes to first world franchise clothing stores like
[19:58] Guess Tommy Hilfiger or Forever 21 Forever 21 is everywhere here, too They'll have the return policy printed right on the receipt now Like I mentioned before one of the reasons you don't get your money back is because when you get that factura That's what they call receipts down here facturas Every Latin country includes its EVA or VAT on those facturas anyway, depending on the country they're collecting from 10 to 22% on everything you buy and that goes directly to the government That's why if you return an item They can't give you back the cash because they already gave the tax part of it to the government Can you imagine the reams of paperwork and time and effort it would take to get some kind of a refund on an item? From the government that's not gonna happen
[20:44] So even if a seller or a company wanted to give your money back if they did they'd be dipping into their own Pockets for the VAT part which already went to the government. You could see the problem there I'm sure by the way just the other day I went to one of the big three phone companies in Latin America that would be Claro CL a ro owned by the way by the richest man in Latin America That would be Carlos fat boy sim not slim You see I was helping out a gringo who bought a phone a couple days earlier and the volume wasn't working correctly on it This guy's an extra rock and roller and he's kind of deaf and he needs to have some decent volume on his phone Now this guy bought an 18 month smartphone contract and we do that down here They give you a choice of a free phone and the free phone you get depends on how much you spend per month on the
[21:34] Plan and of course, I believe like the states you can always upgrade by paying a little more for a different kind of phone Anyway, this guy needed to change his phone and it said right in the contract. He had five days To make a Reclamo remember that word Reclamo that would be to resolve complaints or claims Well, you know what? We sat in that Claro store for two hours The customer service guy trying to say there was nothing wrong with the phone and me arguing that well doesn't matter He's got five days to make a claim and he wants a new phone after well Knowing that we weren't getting anywhere. I did what most gringles do I started raising my voice and stand up Pace a bit and asked to see the manager who I could see right through the glass window in the cubicle next door Nope, she didn't want a scene. Therefore didn't want to deal with me
[22:23] So during that visit the sales guy made three different stops into the manager's office Going back and forth with this thing and meanwhile I kept asking for the manager and I kept pointing to the contract that said five days for Reclamo and it was the third day By the way, so for a while the guy kept insisting there was nothing wrong with the phone worked fine Yes, it did work But not near loud enough for our rock and roller who blew his ears out at a mega death concert Or was it Ozfest can't remember anyway for a while The salesman would only bend enough to say that he would ship the phone to the technical department and have them look at it We could crank up the volume and I said nope. Look at the contract five days Reclamo Give me the manager kept on interrupting him and repeating it
[23:10] Which is a very on Latin thing to do gets everyone's attention kind of a gringo thing You know you longtime listeners probably remember in a past show I mentioned a good friend of mine has been barred from entering a certain Latin government Immigration office because he'd just blow up every time they kept promising him for months that his residency card was ready Every time he went down it just wasn't and finally they did come through with the card But advised him that he was persona non grata in that office. Yep. It's a gringo thing I know we do get extremely Frustrated because we're so used to getting things done quickly up in the first world It's something that most of us get over but some of us never do So yes, some gringos are banned from certain establishments all together now
[23:57] I haven't been so far, but I've had a few close calls now My friend doesn't mind me telling this story in fact He says go ahead. In fact, we visit his factories on the expat insider tour So in the end my little visit to the phone company collateral with my gringo friend seemed to be ending in kind of a stalemate But finally as tensions began to rise and I noticed some of the floor walkers You know guys with the suits are supposed to be security guys Started circling the area the big boss the woman who never came out of her cubicle Finally allowed my buddy to select another phone model now the one that was short on volume The one he was bringing back was an LG So he checked out a Motorola and a Samsung and a Hawaii if that's how you pronounce it And that's when he went with Hawaii made by a nice solid Chinese company, right?
[24:45] Well, at least they don't try to hide it like Apple and their iPhones and everyone else who always like to say Their stuff was designed in the US and only assembled in China. So bottom line remember unlike Dave's case Which is certainly where it's very improbable that you'll ever get your actual cash money back. Hey, don't whine It's ten times better than it was some years ago when anytime you bought anything It was simply buyer beware And if you were lucky or I should say unlucky and your product malfunctioned even on the very first day They still wouldn't give you a new one They'd send it to tech repair and you'd have to wait a couple of weeks In fact, that happened to be about ten or so years ago I bought a brand new TV and got it home and the remote didn't work So being that I purchased it towards the end of the day after dark
[25:32] I decided to come back the next afternoon and I did and they said okay No problem. Give us the TV and the remote and we'll send it to tech repair what? So there it sat for a couple of weeks and I had to keep calling them because they're certainly not gonna tell you when it's That's the other thing about being a Latin America It's really maybe a 50-50 shot that when someone says they're gonna call you back on let's say a service repair item like that They're actually gonna call you so you're gonna have to follow up on everything You're gonna have to be your own secretary and their secretary, too By the way, that includes your Latin lawyer if you send him an email and don't get a response in a day You send him another one. Don't get a response in a day or two Send him a text message or if you want to play hardball Just say you're looking around for another lawyer who actually answers emails Oh, and by the way the modern equivalent of oh, I'm sorry
[26:18] It must have got lost in the mail Remember that one along with telling your creditors that the checks in the mail, of course the modern version of that is oh It somehow slipped into my spam box. Well, that'll work as an excuse once maybe twice But everyone should be checking their spam boxes I do once or twice a week and find the occasional bonafide odd real email stuck in there mixed in with all the Nigerian lotteries that I want. Oops. We're getting towards the end of the show now Remember if you want to get on the early bird list for my July 2017 expat insider seminar It's a great way to get your boots on the ground and get a good glimpse of what I'm always talking about on the show Just send me an email the expat files at gmail.com to get on my preferred mailing list
[27:03] Remember, there'll be a maximum of 25 people and that'll be it So email me the expat files at gmail.com of course the best way to get your plan B started if you haven't got any boots on the ground yet is To check out my expat essentials course go to expat plan B calm and learn how to get all your ducks lined up If you don't have a plan by now, you better get started. Don't wait till the last minute Don't wait till the next shoe drops because it won't be pretty south of the border This is the expat files living in Latin America If you want me to help you out with your own plan B Just schedule a one-on-one consult send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to learn how to move forward with your own plan B from right up there in the states go to
[27:51] www.expatplanb.com and check out my three videos. See ya nos vemos