#614 – Episode 614: Residency, Bureaucracy, and Life in Latin America’s All-Inclusive Resorts

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border, down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now as I wander Hello there all you expat wannabes I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the Expat Files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started Okay, before we get on to talking about the D camera and hope I can finish off today, by the way I don't get a single dime nor a freebie not even a drink or a free cigar for talking about the good the bad The ugly concerning D camera on all-inclusive resorts now don't think that I'm plugging the place in any way

[00:49] I'm just making you aware that there is an option where you can live for an entire year at an all-inclusive Beachside tropical resort on a small pension or a social security check. So is that really possible? Well, we'll see if it is in just a few minutes. So stay tuned However, before we get into that are you up for a story? Sure you are now Occasionally I get emails from people saying Johnny my Spanish is good enough I really don't need a lawyer for the small stuff and people will say things like Johnny, you know Once I get down there, I don't want to pay anybody. I can do things on my own I'll find my way around I always do and some people will say they were backpackers 20 or 25 years ago So they think they could sort of jump right in and pick up where they left off

[01:34] Yep, I get emails like that back lately. I got an email from a guy saying look Johnny I went to the Panama government website to find out what it would cost to get residency And as it turns out it would cost around five to six hundred dollars That's if I hung around stood in the lines and did all myself Then he said yet on the internet You can find lawyers in Panama that'll charge at three four five even six thousand dollars to get residents Then he says same is true for Costa Rica, Belize, Colombia, Peru almost all the other Latin countries So as you can see by these emails people are thinking why should I pay a lawyer when I can do it myself and save A few hundred even thousands of dollars sure if you've got much more time than money it can be done However anyone who tries to do that stuff on their own knows their Spanish has to be pretty good to even attempt it

[02:23] In fact you'll find even in Latin countries that are way off the tourist trail and thus the lawyers charge non gringo prices You'll find an English speaking lawyer will charge twelve hundred to two thousand dollars to get you your temporary permanent or pension auto residency However again, it's true if you go on the internet to the government websites for any of those countries You'll find it's five or six hundred bucks give or take to do the whole thing yourself Without the help of anyone else and I do know some gringos who've actually done that but in almost all cases where that's been accomplished By a lone gringo or gringa said person has been living in that country Continuously for quite a while usually six months to a year or so So you need the time and the patience to jump through all those hoops and stand in all those lines

[03:08] And you'll have to know some Spanish if you're gonna do those things on your own So yes, it can be done. I've seen it But do stock up on audiobooks and regular paper books, too You'll need them for the hours and hours you'll spend in those lines that said here's a little story that just might convince you otherwise Because you see when you hire a lawyer you're getting a new contact a kind of a friend and also a sort of insurance policy So what does that mean? Well first? Let me preface this by saying nearly all Latin American governments are kind of in a state of perpetual chaos This is Latin America. They do call it the third world Right fact is all you have to do is walk into any government office be the Adwana Immigration Port Authority municipal office driver's license bureau. You name it. You'll spot redundancies and efficiencies and

[03:55] people sitting on their dead asses everywhere as Expat Eddie likes to say five government workers to every pencil That's just the way it is and the same thing with government office supplies computers broken printers out of ink Long dead copy machines used as door stops and bundles of papers stacked to the ceiling now in Some of the newer offices when you walk in they look fairly first world and modern But if you get a chance to peek in the back room behind closed doors, you'll see what I mean It's like one of those Hollywood movie facades, you know of a Grand Palace and behind it There's just a dingy mold filled room full of props Do note as you get involved in the process of getting some paperwork done through the government whether it's residency Licensing whatever it's an ever-changing process so you get hung up anywhere along the way

[04:43] And if you don't have a lawyer, you won't even know it and sometimes even your lawyer won't know it but soon enough, it'll come to light and it'll have to be dealt with and better him than you that's for sure and That's why I'm relating the following story a year or so ago a gringo friend of mine hired a lawyer in Nicaragua to process his residency Turns out this guy started a nice little business on a Nicaraguan coastal beach It was a legit brick-and-mortar business So he went to a lawyer to get all the paperwork done correctly and at the same time he applied for a permanent residency So far so good his business is running He's waiting on his residency paperwork and by the way when you apply for residency in pretty much any Latin country You're allowed to stay in that country as long as you want legally

[05:29] You don't have to go out every 90 days as are the laws pertaining to regular tourists and tourists visas You do know that as a person coming from a first world country to pretty much any Latin country You're considered a tourist and you automatically get a 90-day visa as soon as you arrive And if you stay over that limit even one day fines will be assessed and accumulate every day you spend in the country And when you try to leave by air or by land, you'll be hit up for that fine at the airport or at the border Even though it's only a buck or two bucks a day It does add up if it happens to you don't fret you don't end up on some kind of government List by no means are you persona non grata? You can get back into the country at any time They just want you to pay that fine and believe me

[06:15] They're as friendly as can be and are glad to take your money. I've been in that situation myself anyway, once you've applied for permanent or temporary residency, you don't have to worry about that you stay in the country as long as you want and generally within a half year to a year you get your little DPI or Residency card then you see when you fly out of the country or drive out of the country Just show them your passport in that residency card and now doesn't matter at all If you've been in the country over 90 days or even a year or 90 years for that matter perfectly legal to fly out without Paying to find you are a resident Okay so my friend was in Nicaragua for about a year and a half he stayed there the whole time got his business up and Running and during that first year. He frequently contacted his lawyer asking about that little DPI card cuz he hadn't got it yet

[07:03] Even though he was told by his lawyer and he read it all over the internet that it usually takes six months or less After you sign the initial paperwork to get that DPI residency card However, you must always remember this is Latin America, you know, and when you're dealing with the government, they're on double manana time Well as it turns out about three-quarters of a year into the process He got notified by his lawyer that his residency had been approved I no longer pending par for the course and he went down with his lawyer's assistant to the immigration office where they Printed out an official document signed stamped and sealed saying he was now an official permanent resident. Yay Congratulations However, his lawyer told him he'd have to wait maybe a month or two or whenever they got around to it because they were behind chronically behind to get the actual little plastic DPI

[07:54] Card with the non-functional RFID chip in it. Gotta love it This is Latin America, you know, and you know when I see a DPI knowing that the RFID Chip doesn't work that always makes me laugh now for those of you who haven't seen a Latin American DPI The letters in Spanish standing for documento personale Identification in English that stands for personal identification document Now these things are exactly the same size as a driver's license or credit card Yeah, like we all need another piece of plastic in our pockets, right? But where were we? Oh, yeah Anyway after about a year and a half in Nicaragua My friend decided he's gonna meet a friend in Panama place He'd never been stay at the High Rock Hotel there check out Panama City and that great free trade zone in Cologne And since he had a couple of friends in Costa Rica, he hadn't seen a long time. He decided to make a road trip out of it

[08:44] He figured from where he was in Nicaragua It was maybe four or five hours to San Jose Costa Rica then south down through Panama another five or six hours to Panama City Anyway, he was looking forward to the trip and started driving and when he got to the border of Costa Rica and Nicaragua He handed over his passport and that official piece of paper that said he was a permanent resident in Nicaragua He handed that stuff over to the immigration official on the Nicaraguan side of the border However, little did he know but all was not well The official entered his data into the computer and stopped him right there. He asked where's your DPI card? He said well, I'm still waiting for that Hasn't been processed yet and the guy said well Then you'll have to pay that daily fine that you've been in the country a long time past your 90 days

[09:31] And he said wait a minute. Wait a minute I just gave you the official paper that says I've been a resident of Nicaragua. Therefore. I don't have to pay any fines at all I was not overstaying my visa. I don't have a visa. I'm a resident then the immigration guy gave him a look and said Wait here Just a minute and he took his passport and his paperwork and he walked over to another Lard-ass government slug this time a woman eating her lunch had a big old desk just stacked with disorganized papers He came back about five minutes later and said well if you don't have that DPI card you have to have a stamp in your passport saying that you're a permanent resident and You don't have one. So you'll have to drive back to Managua Go to the immigration office get that stamp and come on back and my friend said what this doesn't make sense at all

[10:19] By the way, my friend speaks enough Spanish to be able to get pissed off in Spanish and give it back in Spanish, too Then he said to the guy in Spanish. I don't get it I have the official paper right here with all the stamps on it It says I've been a resident for a long time many months and the immigration guy said yeah But you don't have the stamp on your passport Which would have surely meant another three or four hours to Managua three or four hours back So he'd have lost the whole day not to mention who knows how long at the immigration office to try to get that stamp That could take a day in itself and he might even have to bring his lawyer down with him or his lawyers aid So naturally he did what any gringo in that position would do he sat down on the dirty steps and just started crying

[11:05] No, just kidding. He called his lawyer In fact, he did it right in front of the immigration officer then and his luck would have it a lawyer didn't pick up So he did what his lawyer told him in case of emergency He got on what's up sent him an SOS text message and his lawyer phoned right back He explained on the phone to the lawyer what happened and lawyer said that's absolutely crazy I've never heard of a situation like that Then he said put the guy on the phone for me So my friend handed the phone to the immigration officer. They talked for about five minutes He then walked over to his fat ass supervisor slug who was still packing an oversized sandwich down her gullet Handed the phone to her. They had a conference for a few minutes She went to a door walked outside to have a private conference with my friend

[11:52] She still had the phone in her hand. The lawyer was on it She handed it to my friend and the lawyer said here's what you do You make three copies of that official document that says you're a resident you give one to the immigration lady Keep the other two with you to show to immigration when you come back through on your return trip So there you have it a weird little story of why you really need to have a lawyer Because you see my friend Shirley could have gotten his residency paperwork on his own and saved some money even But then what would he have done when he tried to get through the border and was faced with that situation With no lawyer to call he'd had to gone back to Minaguan who knows how long that would have taken Worship, what if he would have gotten in a car accident on the road? Any number of things couldn't happen when you're on a road trip, right? Think about it

[12:39] What would you do if you don't have a lawyer who you have a certain professional relationship with who you gonna call? I know you're a drunken gringo buddies at the expat bar who told you you don't need a lawyer You can do it all yourself and save some money. They'll get you out of it, right? Hmm Okay related to the fact that you get a 90-day visa when you come into most any Latin country Meaning whatever country you land in you have to be out in 90 days or start paying a fine Anyway, since the last few shows I've been talking about the camera on all inclusive resorts kind of explaining what a great deal It is how to get the best bang for your buck and even live there all year round Already those last few shows have spawned quite a few emails Like this one from Rick which I'll paraphrase a bit

[13:25] He says Johnny do you plan on discussing laundry services at the camera on in future episodes? After all if one's spending a lot of time at one of these resorts They may want to watch their clothes from time to time, of course Not to mention he asked about tourist visas He wonders should so-called full-time guests plan on moving to a different D camera on resort in another country every 90 days Because of that normal three-month visa stay limit both good questions though The first one might seem a bit mundane. It really is Everyone knows a mountain of dirty clothes can make or break a vacation not to mention a relationship Anyway regarding laundry, of course, they have regular laundry service like they do at hotels You know a bag in the closet and you stuff your clothes in there Call maid service and they do a big garbage bag full for around five bucks use that service myself

[14:15] But that was a while back now, surely I would think there are easier and cheaper ways to do it Though five bucks for all that isn't all that bad, but you probably could get it for half that I suppose the first thing would be to ask any of the laundry ladies or maids If there was anyone interested in making some money on the sly or off the books After all these are ladies making around 250 to 300 bucks a month and at least half of the resorts workers Go home every night or after their shifts taking buses to one of the nearby cities. That's where the help comes from I'm certain you could make a nice deal with one of the locals Of course There's nothing stopping you to from hopping a bus or a cab and going to one of the nearby towns and to a laundromat By the way, most laundromats here in Latin America off the gringo tourist trail and some on the tourist trail are really a complete service

[15:02] You just drop your clothes off to the lady in charge and you come back later in the day and they're all done Unfolded starched, whatever you want. That's part of the service And of course, there are the traditional laundromats where you shove in your own coins and such But it's almost just as cheap to have the lady in charge do everything for you And why not one of the huge advantages of being in Latin America is that labor is so damn cheap So in the end, I think if you're hooking up on a long-term basis with a decameron hotel If you just ask around a bit You'll figure out a nice cheap way to get your laundry done either on the premises or in a nearby town In fact, if you're driving into pretty much any decameron there on the beach, remember Right before you get there You'll be driving along a road that branches off from a main highway For example, the one in El Salvador

[15:49] You'll turn off a very big highway and be on a road that's kind of out in the boonies and soon enough You'll see little rustic farmhouses and the occasional mom-and-pop quarter store along with roadside farmer stands selling Coconuts and papayas, etc. All on a nice paved road leading right up to the main entrance gate of the Decameron I bet there are any number of ladies along that road who would jump at the chance to do your laundry Wait a minute. That doesn't sound right does it? Hmm After all many of those people living in those little houses and such are the same ones that work at the Decameron Doing the very same thing. So then what about the second part of the question that 90-day visa thing? Yes, fortunately Or unfortunately if you decide to do the Decameron thing as a retirement plan or option

[16:38] You'll have to arrange your stays so that they don't last more than 90 days in any particular Country a Decameron is located in that is of course unless you decide to make one particular Decameron your sort of home base and you stay there more than 90 days or even most of the year or perhaps forever or Until they carry you out on a stretcher So if you decide on a home-based Decameron on that case you'll apply for residency in that country and you're all set and still you can Work your plan out so that you can stay at other Decam runs throughout Latin America Remember there more than 50 of them in about 10 different Latin countries though You'll have to limit those days to 90 days or less And remember if you actually plan on going over the 90-day limit right before it's up You can go down to immigration in that country and get a 90-day extension

[17:24] Normally, that'll cost you 20 to 50 bucks, but you can't do that indefinitely You'll still have to go out of any particular Latin country at least twice a year if you don't have residency Clear as mud, huh? So on that note Let's continue where we left off last week with the stick Cameron story if you recall I was sitting in a big room at one of those 15 or 20 odd Tables that each had a guy with a clipboard and an iPad trying to sell a Decameron club package Remember I said last time that the guy that was trying to sell me mine had pulled a typical used car salesman bit After I got up and tried to walk away. He didn't like that the second deal He offered me it was three thousand points at seventeen thousand dollars

[18:10] And if you remember from last show I did the calculations and figured you need around 3,000 points to be able to do the maneuvers Necessary with that point system to stay at a Decameron all-inclusive resort for an entire year That would be double occupancy 3,000 points for two people now at this point my relationship with this guy was getting a little rough I was the only guy there that was asking a lot of questions beating them down and just was kind of a hard sell In fact, I was the only gringo there and at the whole resort I saw maybe three or four gringos and they weren't there alone as gringos They were married to a Latino or a Latina So they knew all about the Decameron through their marriage partners who they met up in the states and by marrying into their Latin families, they learned about this wonderful all-inclusive very inexpensive resort complex that only exists in Latin America

[19:01] By the way, I have to tell you that somehow by hook or crook French Canadians have found out about the Decameron but only in a very small way So how'd I find that out? Well, many times I was sitting around a restaurant in a crowd of 15 or 20 of them walk in and sit down in A gigantic reserved table not to mention they were all retired and very old too I don't think a single one was under 70 and one of them told me there's a travel agency in Montreal that puts together Package deals along with charter flights for retired Canadians. Yep They fly in a couple of times a week So they're coming down as regular tourists not buying the Decameron Club deal They just come down for a week or so as old retired Canadian snowbirds always speaking French. No English No Spanish. So when I say I only ran into maybe three or four real live gringos

[19:49] Of course, they were attached to their Latin partners I'm not including the French Canadians in the head group Even though there are maybe 40 or 50 of them running around at any given time at that Decameron even so I didn't see a single one of them being sold one of those Decameron Club plans I want to get this in the evening when they have their Las Vegas style floor show the MC always says raise your hand stand up and yell if you're from Costa Rica Mexico Peru, whatever Latin country and when they say Canada The MC always says a few words in French and the French Canadians unlike the Latins don't jump up and yell They just kind of grunt politely. That's the way they are So basically the only so-called gringos you might see at a Decameron would be well fossilized French Canadians

[20:35] You'll know them because they always stick together speak French and usually by the first or second day are painfully sunburned So they arrive as white as Wonder Bread and leave beet red. Ouch Meanwhile back at that little table with the salesman I said I understand the membership rules for the Decameron Club have changed over the last few years Specifically regarding the food. I said, would you mind explaining that to me? He said it used to be till around two years ago You bought your points in the club package and it was all-inclusive Just as if you went down to your travel agency and booked a Decameron for an all-inclusive trip Hotel restaurants food drinks all included, but now we've changed those rules He said when you buy your points package, whether it's a thousand points fifteen hundred three thousand

[21:21] Whatever those points are for your Decameron stays and facilities, but not the food you buy the food extra I said what you mean? There's an extra charge for food. He said yep In fact, we have a club package specials where you don't stay at the hotel at all You just come as a day guest. He said a lot of local people do that They buy just the day package and I said, so what's that all about? He says well, normally it's $44 a person per day to come to Decameron enjoy yourself swim Eat drink to your heart's content and then you go home at night because you don't have a room We call that the all-inclusive food package and I said you got to be kidding $44 a night per person. He said yes, but that's somewhat misleading The way it works out. We're always offering two-for-one specials on the food price

[22:11] So almost all year round you can get the all-inclusive food rate for $22 per person Then he got on his iPad and pulled up a couple of months and he was right They were offering two-for-one food packages practically every single month and I said wait a minute So you buy your points and then you have to pay $22 a day for the all-inclusive food and drink portion of the deal. He said that's right And I said well, wait a minute Let me do some numbers here and I figured out if a gringo couple stayed all year round in a Decameron and paid $22 apiece every day for the food beverage and refreshment portion of the deal that works out to around $16,000 a year for two and then I said, okay, let's break this down Suppose I bought 3,000 points right now that would give me and another person double occupancy for a year. That's

[23:02] 17,000 bucks then I have to pay $16,000 extra to get the all-inclusive food and beverage portion of the deal and you have to buy that right? You can't just get one or the other he said well You can do the food portion, but you'll only be a day guess if you're a guest staying overnight Whether it's a day two days a week or a year. Yes, you'll pay 44 bucks a day normally 22 because we have deals all the time Okay, so I worked the numbers two people double occupancy for the entire year Provided like he said they offer deals all the time where you get two for one on the food. That would be around $33,000 a year for two which would just about completely eat up to social security checks So that said if you compare that number to the number I checked out four or five years ago when I first talked to those

[23:51] Two American Harley Davidson guys who were living there full-time. The price has about doubled back then if I remember It was around eight or nine thousand bucks per person complete sixteen to eighteen thousand bucks double occupancy for two people But now it's doubled. However, when you think about it's still a fantastic deal $33,000 for a couple for a year now You might not know this but certain cruise lines like Norwegian and some others offer their passengers a similar kind of retirement deal Where they can live on a cruise ship for an entire year or forever As long as they can fork out the dough and how much is it? Well, it depends on the type and class of ship and cruise line But it's anywhere from around fifty thousand to a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year per person Some cruise lines are even selling off cabins like condos, which if you saw the prices, you'd know

[24:42] It's only for the very rich. However, if you're gonna do the year-round cruise ship retirement living option You can count on having to dump a hundred grand a year for two double occupancy And again, it's got to be double occupancy In fact, the stats today show that two percent of all the passengers on cruise ships are long-term senior couples staying six months or longer on one ship So figure it out hundred grand a couple and up as compared to thirty three thousand dollars with the camera Which I admit is cutting it close because you're counting on them offering that two for one food deal all the time So to be safe, I'd say you should budget thirty five to forty grand a year For two double occupancy still a great deal and yes I did knock the salesman down to his rock-bottom price or did I well at that point?

[25:33] I thanked the guy got up to leave Which was the third time I tried to make an exit by the way all on purpose Of course, and that's when he really kind of blew his stack and actually called me a ta can yo to my face Which means cheapskate and that's when I looked him straight in the eye and I said, you know what? You forgot the cardinal rule of salesmanship never talk down to or insult your customer Then I said what if I called your supervisor over here right now and told him you insulted me And you know what he said. Listen, I lived in the United States Los Estados In fact, he said my father he's up there now a very successful businessman 40 employees Yeah, this guy had an attitude and a little Latin lisp to go along with it man that I frustrate this guy He just couldn't sell me then I said well if your dad's a successful businessman has 40 employees

[26:22] Why aren't you up there working for him? Why you sweating it out every day in the Sun like this trying to sell this stuff then he said look at this I have a BMW and then he pulled out his heat chain and showed me one of those little BMW Plastic key rings that anyone could get for five bucks Then he smiled a big smile showing a couple of missing teeth in the back Always a telltale sign of a class act now remember this guy's about 35 years old Long sleeves in an open-air tropical place, which was really weird because it's so hot Why would he be wearing that till I realized he wore those long sleeves to cover up his gangbanger tats Which were slightly peeking through? Yep, the guy certainly did live in the US and got deported

[27:08] I'd bet my life on it and I was kind of at war with this guy So then what happened? Well, we'll have to wait till next time because we're getting towards the end of the show now by the way I've got one or maybe two more seats left for my expat insider seminar in January 2017 Go to www.thenewexpet.com and click on Johnny's 2017 seminar link time's a-wastin This is the expat files living in Latin America If you want me to help you out with your own plan B Just schedule a one-on-one consult send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to learn how to move forward with your own plan B from right up there in the states go to www.expatplanb.com and check out my three videos. See ya nos vemos