#1461 – The Expat Files: Labor Laws, Medical Fraud, and Life in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now as I wonder Hello there all you ex-pad wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started Occasionally I get emails like this one from a person named swan who names their kids swan Better a lady named swan than a guy, right? It's a lady. This email is definitely from a lady She says Johnny longtime listener first-time writer

[00:47] She says yours is not the only expat podcast. I listen to though. It's probably the best Because you talk about things other podcasters just don't hit on Probably because you've been in Latin America so many years and you mingle with a local Whereas other expat broadcasters mingle and hang and live and hang with other American expats. So Johnny That's why I appreciate and look forward to your shows all the best swan so anyway, I get emails like that on occasion people mentioning how Occasionally I talk about things. They never hear other expat podcasters talk about though I wouldn't know because I don't listen to any other expat podcasters though I know there are a million out there though Sometimes when I hit on a subject I get the feeling no one's talking about it on that note

[01:33] Let's start out today with something. I'm sure no one's ever spoken about on an expat podcast I'd bet the farm on it It's something I have never heard any gringo expats talk about before and I only know about it because my Latin American girlfriend Who's an executive at an internet company filled me in on it? It's about employee employer Relationships here in Latin America. Let's start out by talking about how labor laws here in Latin America differ from labor Laws up in the States or Canada or in the first world I'm talking about labor laws as they apply to people who work legally on the books Which accounts for about 60 to maybe 70 percent of adult Latin Americans? Meaning of course fully 30 to 40 percent of Latin Americans work for cash off the books in the gray market pay no taxes

[02:19] In a way, you got to love it I mean look eventually everyone realizes how corrupt and disgusting all Governments are and now every tax dollar they squeeze out of you is basically pure theft But you knew that already so I won't beat that drum today Anyway, labor laws and labor contracts that companies have with individual workers are quite different than what you and I are familiar with For example, you know up in the states when you get hired on how many sick days you get per year how many holidays? How many vacation days etc For example Americans tell me up in the states they get a week or two weeks of sick leave every year Everyone up in the states has their allotted sick days, right? whether you use them or not another thing would it surprise you to know that here in Latin America a Worker on the books, you know signing a contract and everything gets zero sick days

[03:07] Yep There's no labor law that says that a company's got to give workers sick date And you know when a gringo or expat like me first hears that you think man, that's really unfair There's something wrong with that sounds cruel After all everyone gets sick once in a while. Yeah. Well, but there's a lot more to that story Here's how code if you're working legitimately on the books for a company here in Latin America and you get sick You don't show up at work. You're calling no problem. People get sick. You take the day off You come back to work the next day. Guess what? No one says anything. That's completely legit You don't get in trouble. You don't get docked You still get paid unless you're working a factory on piecework sounds like a pretty good system unless of course people start abusing it Well, here's the thing Suppose you take two days off in a row. Well, guess what when you come back on that third day?

[03:58] You better have a piece of paper in your hand from a doctor Called a Lissencia. The word Lissencia is spelled almost exactly like the word license So a Lissencia is a doctor slip a permission slip Basically, the note says with a doctor's stamp and seal on it this guy or gals been under my care for the past couple days and has permission to miss work and for example if it's an extended sickness or Someone needs an appendectomy or something. The doctor a doctor will write one of those Lissencia's For however long you're to be out of work Apparently a doctor can write a Lissencia for up to one month and it's perfectly legit Your company can't fire you come down on you can't do anything to you They even have to pay you for those days you sit so that's the system down here

[04:45] By the way, if you're out of work for longer than a month You got to keep getting a Lissencia renewed from your doctor. So that's how it works down here It's been like that for years even decades now. I have to know lots of corruption has crept into this system Why wouldn't there be you can see there's lots of room for hanky-panky turns out in every Latin country every Latin city in town People know there are certain doctors you can go to and get one of those Lissencia's For a price pretty much on demand. You just show up in his office sit down in the waiting room amongst other people Eventually, your name will be called you'll walk into his office. He'll probably check your blood pressure and heart rate You know do something He'll ask you what's wrong to exhibit your symptoms and you might say you have a headache

[05:32] Diarrhea intestinal flu, whatever whether they're real or not. He'll write up one of those Lissencia's for you So there are certain doctors that are kind of running a Lissencia meal now They're real doctors and they're really seeing patient for real problems and infirmities But they're also considered such easy touches. All you do is show up now They won't give you a week off or a month off That'd be stretching the system a little too much, but you'll get a couple of days off any time you want So you're probably wondering what's in it for these docs. Well, like my girlfriend says about 30 bucks That's what it costs for a doctor's visit now 30 bucks doesn't sound like much to you and me That's about twice the minimum wage for a day in most Latin American countries. So for the average worker, it's not insignificant But 30 bucks for an extended weekend for some it's worth it now again

[06:21] It's a lot of fraud in this system But most docs never get caught because they're real docs and they don't go overboard and hand out those things for long periods of time They know how many Lissencia's they can write in a day or a week and still stay under the radar Because big companies with lots of employees Let's say a big call center are on the lookout for those kinds of scam So most docs in the game don't overdo it, especially not with repeat offenders from the same company Now most every adult in Latin America knows about how this scam works They keep quiet about it too because someday they may need to use it themselves Everyone knows except us gringles and expats. That's why I'm telling you about it now In fact, I remember sitting at a little get-together and a couple of ladies were talking about it One of those Latino ladies was passing a phone number on to another

[07:08] Insisting that said doctor would get her some legit extended time off for a vacation. She was planning So there's a lot of that going on to taking some sick days and instead going on vacation To a resort or something along those lines So then why am I bringing this up when it really has absolutely nothing to do with gringles and expats because you're not gonna work For the man when you come down here and get that plan be going if anything You'll start a business and be the man So then would it be nice to know if the occasional chronically sick employee is pulling a scam? Well, you know what brought this whole theme to the forefront and why I'm talking about is because like I said Everyone knows it's happening, but there's been no real big scandals about it I never saw anyone write an op-ed about it or discuss it in an article or in the news until now

[07:55] Just this month and of course this news never gets up to the first world because first of all it's in Spanish and it from South America, no less Chile to be precise. So here's the headline from one of Chile's biggest social media sites It's all over the newspapers and press out translated here. It says Disaster with medical licenses for public employees costs Chile 350 million dollars a year So finally in Chile at least it's gotten so far out of hand. It's all over the wire services Let me hit some of the bullet points here. It says in Chile public employees You know people working for the government miss their jobs due to sickness on average 31 point seven days a year

[08:43] a trend that just keeps growing especially when looking at the reports of Absenteeism due to sickness in the education justice and health sectors in Chile. It says in some government departments Absenteeism due to sickness ranges between 35 and 37 days a year Okay. Now, here's the scandal. It says public employees in Chile have become a national shame after it just became known that 25 thousands state officials submitted false medical licenses With the aim of obtaining paid leave and traveling abroad without denting their incomes It's been estimated that the 25,000 false medical licenses have cost the state

[09:30] 350 million dollars a year It says the government of president gabriel broack has released the figures saying that more than 8 million days of absences Were registered by government officials last year alone It goes on to say how is it that no one in government has ever noticed it before? Since it has been ongoing and getting worse year after year. It's because so many people are in on it Well, it says an official fraud investigation Discovered a criminal network of health professionals who are writing those fraudulent medical licenses With over 1500 doctors being called out so far Then it says an unprecedented audit by chile's comptroller's office with the investigative police force revealed medical license fraud in chile

[10:16] Extends all the way up to deputados and their staffs deputados are the country's senators and congressmen For example, and they name names here one senator a woman head of the budget directorate No less what irony, huh used 332 sick days in the last four years All covered by supposedly legit medical licenses issued by registered doctors Then it says a report from el mercudio One of south america's largest newspaper says that 25 000 public officials obtained false health permits last year with at least 993 of those cases obtaining medical licenses to take vacation trips abroad with fully 317 workers from the government's

[11:05] That's the national bank vacationing abroad while on sick leave as well And it was reported just three days ago that the medical leave scandal has worsened the comptroller discovered 14 senators had vacationed abroad on medical licenses at least 20 different times a piece Imagine the scandal of just one senator took 20 different vacations abroad While on medical leave they caught not one but 14 senators doing that. Oh, and it said just this week Chile's banco estado. That's the state bank Fired 91 of their workers for traveling outside of chile on medical leave Finally, it says they've discovered a group of thousands of regular contract officials advisors and personnel

[11:52] Working for chile's congress and the senate That's thousands of government employees who took at least three trips overseas while on medical leave so in the end chile's Comptroller's office has uncovered massive medical license fraud and every day the scandal gets wider and deeper and that's in the public sector No one's investigating the private sector yet A report from the comptroller says quote in the government. There's a culture with total lack of ethics Hmm sound familiar With government officials caught in the scam justifying their fraud by insisting their crimes were small time misdemeanors inconsequential in the greater scheme of things It was discovered that in some of the more extreme cases Working for government allowed you to have three months a year of medical leave

[12:41] Paid medical leave without ever having to be sick or suffer any consequences at all Which brings us back full circle to what's been happening in the u.s We all know that before that covidiet crap that was a completely different more accountable system Remember starting with that covidiet crap Most people in government were able to work at home We all know what a bullshit scam that's been getting paid for doing Nothing seems to be the status quo for everyone in government Then maybe again, it's not such a bad idea paying government workers to stay at home at least then they are not in their offices creating more paperwork red tape and obstacles hoops to jump through etc for regular people people who do real work for a living All right onto something later now, you know last show we're talking about crazy latin american names

[13:33] If you recall dave number one wrote in talking about some of the latino and latina names with silent h's that just don't make sense Well just by coincidence the other day. I was in a big medical clinic standing right in front of the board You know that has the names of all the doctors in the building their specialties their office numbers, etc Anyway sitting in a chair looking at this board for about 20 minutes I thought man, I gotta take a photo of this and talk about some of these names. We're talking about crazy ass doctor names Now, let me read a couple of these for you and you tell me why would parents label their kid with a crazy ass name? Well, apparently all the names on this board did fine. They're all doctors So apparently their names did not deter them from professional status. So maybe it's me. Maybe i'm wrong about all this

[14:18] Maybe when a parent gives a kid a crazy ass first name It gives certain kids the extra push they need to excel in life Or not. How about this first name? Dr. Diney abie Perez. Come on. Why would you name your kid? diney abie That's d-a-n-e-y-b-i. How about this one lady? Doctor again psychiatrist Her name is doctor or doctora in espanol. Mircea ba m-i-r-c-i-a-b-a Mircea ba pacheco. How about this one another lady? Doctor aesthetic medicine. Her name is dr Natividad that's in english. Dr. Christmas, which I guess is all right for a last name, but that's your first name doctora Christmas castro. Oh and here's an oncologist a man. His name is dr. Rambon Perez

[15:09] That's Rambo with an an on it Rambon Perez By the way, there's a word that means lazy ass person. That's lombon l-a-m-b-o-n I kind of think rambon and lombon. It's a little too close for comfort, huh? Again, why do parents do that? Well didn't hurt this guy. He became a doctor Oh, and how about this lady doctor's names almost sounds russian red velka, but she doesn't have one ounce of russian in her Her name is dr. Dora red velka nunez Hmm red velka man. It's a tongue twister Oh, and here's a lady doctor who has one of those famous names with a silent h on the end of it Which also didn't seem to harm her career. I mean she became a doctor. She's a pulmonologist The name is dr. Dora nisidia with an h on the end of it that's silent nisidia

[16:00] Beltran and finally we have another lady doctor with that silent h at the end of her name Her name is dr. Dora lizabeth With an h on the end. That's silent now. Check out the spelling of lizabeth l iss a b e l h Not e liz with a z beth. It's l i s s I guess you'd pronounce it lisabeth Also a name that's terribly difficult to remember man. That's always been one of my personal hangups I have a terrible time remembering name simple names a couple letters Not so much but a name that sounds simple phonetically pronounced as we know it With a bunch of non-congruent letters thrown in for a good measure man count me out

[16:46] I'm never gonna remember that name. I guess that's what name tags were invented for People like me who draw a blank with names All right moving on here's something that doesn't make a lot of sense might shock you a little bit Maybe not If you've been to latin america, especially in a medium or a large sized city you've seen walmarts down here They're everywhere. In fact, they're the biggest grocery retailer in all of latin america They've got over 4 000 stores in central and south america But here's the thing. They never build one of those stores from scratch They buy out existing local chains and put their stamp on it Remodel it to make it look like a walmart store fix the parking lot You know give it a first world upgrade and first world signage and there you have it a walmart So bottom line walmart by far has the most numbers of retail grocery stores throughout latin america

[17:37] Also, you may or may not know they're latin america's largest single employer, too But here's the crazy part the next two runners up One's called the casino grocery store chain and the other is called caddy for c-a-r-r-e-f-o-u-r with about 3000 store locations throughout latin america Anyway, i'm lumping these two together casino and carry for because guess what? They are franchise chains from France now Who would have guessed a french grocery store company in the 1990s came into latin america and now dominates Second and third place of all franchise grocery store chains almost no one speaks french in latin america Well in haiti they speak a kind of creole french But really in the rest of latin america there are very few french speaking people who are french tourists for that matter

[18:26] You don't run into a muffin at all yet They've got the number two and three biggest retail grocery store chains in all of latin america Makes you wonder how is that possible? But in actuality, I like it. I like it a lot because when you go into those stores, especially caddy for They've got all kinds of great imported products from europe cheese wine specialty item The bigger ones have a french bakery too with great croissants french butter french dairy products direct from france In the original packaging with french labeling It still sort of surprises me when I walk in there and see a big display around christmas time of french gift baskets Candies chocolate. In fact when you go into the aisle, that's got the canned tuna and stuff They've got the standard, you know imported mercury tainted bumblebee and chicken of the sea

[19:13] They've also got french brands you've never heard of before and yes since they're coming from europe and not under the thumb of the fda I'm virtually certain the standards are stricter and they're much healthier than the usual suspects Anyway, just thought you might find that interesting Oh and on that list of top retail grocers in latin america There are a few more usual suspects you might recognize like oxxo. That's all over mexico and central america They've got safeway and costco which is price smart Anyway, suffice it to say whatever your tastes are in food imported or not 99 of the time you'll be able to get it down here and for that other one percent Well, there's always amazon and for those of you and us who do not like to shop at those big box stores And much prefer to hit the local produce markets

[20:00] Well, if you're living down here, it's like hitting a lottery There are foods in these big ass outdoor food markets that you've never even seen or tasted before Do give those odd looking fruits and vegetables a try you'll be surprised. What have you got to lose? Only and I can't mention this enough. Don't let the little guy or gal selling this stuff to you Slice off a little sample if he does don't eat it. That's a recipe for montazuma's revenge But then again, you don't want to be rude. So take that half a piece of fruit from the guy say Thanks. I'll eat it later Make up an excuse. There's a good chance. It'll save you a trip or a couple of trips to the crapper Oh and it goes without saying if you're gonna have montazuma's revenge you want to have it in the comfort of your own home Not in one of those massive chaotic produce markets Talk about compounding the agony

[20:46] All right now an email question from a good friend of the show. Mr r g from mexico He says hold on johnny I'm curious if you might consider waxing eloquent regarding the nature of latin american Friendships between gringos and locals. I know you prefer to live well off the established gringo runs and That with your acquired level of spanish you've developed local latin american friendships over the years As I recall you once said that most friendships that most gringos acquire in latin america are usually with the predominantly Select outliers in short gringos and expats develop friendships with atypical local latinos and latinas Mr. B asks, what about the overall societal level of trust? What about ethical behavior?

[21:32] Is it even possible in those kinds of gringo latino relationships given it's such an overly corrupt political and economic society He says it also seems reflected in your observation that basically all Latino guys will mess around on their wives if given half a chance Mr. Rg says it's always been A mystery to me that if a man will mess around on his own supposed best friend his wife and love interest How reasonable is it to assume that guy could have a trusting relationship with a gringo? I wonder he says is it possible To truly have a sound friendship with a latino that will break so many other ethical rules He says johnny you've been down here in latin america three times as long as I have So maybe you're seeing something. I have not realized yet. Anyway, that's my two pesos worth

[22:21] Keep up the good fight liberating freedom seeking refugees from the rapidly degenerating Swenio americano up north Signed mr. Bg in mexico. Okay. All right, mr. B. Thanks for that I'd say there are a few ways that could answer those questions. Let me put it this way most of us gringles and expats have gringo and expat friends up in the states and down here in latin america if you're living here and you Figured out a long time ago just which one of those guys or gals You 100 trust in which ones you wouldn't like for example Which ones would you let use your car? Would you ask to house sit and feed your dogs for a couple of weeks? Let's say which ones would you lend money to and which ones if you knew they were coming over? Would you consider hiding the silverware?

[23:07] Now as far as house sitting I think that's a pretty key item here I've got lots of expat gringo buddies guys and gals. I'd let house sit totally confident They wouldn't steal anything or abuse my place. They wouldn't damage anything Probably leave it better off than when they entered Oddly enough except for my girlfriend. I can't say that about any latin american person I know except my cleaning lady, but then again i'm paying her when she's watching the house, right different story It breaks down to this my steady girlfriend of about three years now is absolutely trustworthy I've heard many other latino and latinas say that about her as well. They say She's absolutely trustworthy on the up and up and they ask her for advice about lots of things She's sort of the answer lady for all her friends and family Not a good spot to be in she says I know what you mean. I was that guy many years ago when I lived back in chicago

[23:56] It's not a good spot to be in if you want to live a nice calm low-profile life anyway, i'm lucky enough to have found a person like her who can pre-qualify all the latinos and latinos I run into Before i'm ever able to pass judgment on him She's a great judge of latino character and you need one of those For example, i'll meet a latino guy a plumber a worker or whatever and she'll come right out and tell me his good bad and ugly Quality she might say for example about her own cousin Don't let him talk into becoming a pal on what's up with him He'll talk your ear off and ingratiate himself to you and after a month or two he'll ask to borrow some money Which he won't pay back. So mr B is a word of advice i'd say eventually if you know enough spanish you're gonna meet at least one or two latinos

[24:43] You have complete trust in like for example. I have complete trust in my latino lawyer He'll always give me the straight poop on people in situations I have gringo and expat friends that'll do that too, but very very few latinos are in that category Because as a rule, they're very Non-confrontational so they'll tell you what you want to hear they'll put an optimistic or bright spin on everything Nothing wrong with that. It greases the wheels of friendship and community and all that but it makes for a society That's based on little white lies and distress Now mr B when you talk about how so many gringles and expats say they have good latin american friends But in reality most of those friendships are not quite normal meaning those friends are atypical latinos and latinos meaning they are looking to have gringo and expat friends because they speak a bit of english and

[25:32] Looking to move on up because like it or not latinos and latinas with gringo friends are viewed often by other latinos with some envy Because gringo friends are friends as they say with benefits. Now. I'm not saying latino friends are always looking for favors They're not though. Here's another odd thing. I've noticed A latino friend who speaks some english won't think twice about inviting you to a party where none of his friends or family speaks english I've been there and you can feel really out of place In a way they're showing off to their friends and family who have no gringo acquaintances What i'm saying is there will be times you feel like you're a trophy being passed around As for fully trustworthy latinos and latinas, you'll find them and when you do you should lean on them They're glad to help and the other thing you mentioned mr B that it's a mystery to you That latinos are notorious for cheating on their wives and girlfriend if they can't keep that their most important relationship sacred

[26:24] How are they going to be a good friend to you? Yes, mr Rg, that is a question for the ages The bigger mystery to me has always been why latina women put up with these guys I know I know people keep saying to me johnny, but that's all they've got to choose from that's their society Latino men latino women. That's what you got down here. I get it. I get it But now I know why latinos who've had gringo boyfriend Even if they weren't great guys and nothing to write home about in our book still the latina will tell her friends and relatives She's been spoiled by a gringo and will never go out with latinos again They say that anyway and for the most part it's true The other thing is and latinas have told me that once you've gone out with a gringo You're introduced to a different group of people a group that includes other gringos friends and acquaintances of his Normally the average latina couldn't break into that kind of group of people

[27:11] She's outside of that social circle, but now that she's going out with a gringo She's in it and if they break up, well, you know the story. Well, maybe don't oftentimes Her next boyfriend will be one of the gringos. She was introduced to in that crowd In other words after a failed romantic relationship with a gringo She does not have to take two steps backward and take her chances with a bad boy latino guy. You get it, right? So You've been listening to the expat files living in latin america If you need some help with your own plan b we can schedule a one-on-one phone or skype consult Just send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to get on the waiting list for my next week long expat insider seminar in central america Where you're guaranteed to get a two to five year head start on your plan b send me an email the expat files at gmail.com

[27:58] No spamos