#229 – The Expat Files: Gun Culture and Safety in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now as I wonder My thoughts ever straight Hi everybody I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files Living in Latin America the show that tells you what it's really like to live work play and or retire in Latin America I tell it just like it is so let's get started Okay, well it's time to get caught up on some of these emails as for now I've got a huge backlog of ones I want to answer and an even more giant backlog of ones. I'll never answer emails. I won't answer under any circumstances

[00:47] Emails from people who just don't get it or people who haven't really been paying attention like this one for example Hey Johnny, I love your show, and I really want to move down to Latin America But first please tell me what's the best country to move to if you're a woman? Hmm You know when I get asked questions like that. I don't really get it does she mean the country That's the safest for women the least expensive for women one with the strongest women's rights One with the best health care for women the country. That's got the best-looking Antonio bandettas look alike Latin lovers available for romantic liaisons the country That's got the best medical tourism the best coffee the best first-world shopping anyway You get the point so I don't answer emails like that, and I don't answer emails like this dear Johnny

[01:35] I'm planning on coming down to Latin America. What would be a good business for me to get into? Hmm well all I can say is how about you go back and listen to about? 225 of my old shows and then write me an email Anyway now here's an email that definitely deserves an answer and it's from a very loyal smart and experienced listener named John He says dear Johnny I figure I should take this opportunity to suggest a show topic for you while it's still legal to use the word up here You know what I'm talking about guns And I'll paraphrase here because this email is a long one so he goes on to say now I know saying anything about guns is gonna make some progressive network listeners a bit nervous to say the least anyway

[02:20] You know the saying there's no such thing as bad publicity So if the mention of guns stirs up a little outrage in the vegan part of your demographic. That's a good thing, right? Anyway, there's definitely another under-recognized demographic among your listeners who are very interested in the gun situation in Latin America I'm in that demographic and I know at least two of the other attendees to your first Latin American seminar Who were definitely into the topic as well? And I've noticed that the subject seems to surface with some regularity in discussions with other expats and wannabes besides that one of the first things that even animal activists and leather abstaining vegans are going to notice after they leave the Airport in any country in Latin America like Guatemala or Ecuador is the number of armed guards?

[03:10] Standing around it's kind of hard to overlook the sight of a guy standing out in front of every bank Western Union Grocery store and even coca-cola truck holding a shotgun Someone remarked to me that the reason for this was that the Latin American governments are relatively small and weak The big businesses that actually have the money to pay taxes are able to avoid paying them Since avoiding taxes is the national sport down there and because tax collection is very low There are no big police forces that are well funded and alike as a result The rich and the business owners would rather buy protection for themselves and their businesses instead. It's really the deference principle That's why there's a guy standing outside every grocery store with a shotgun in his arms

[03:57] So Johnny if you get a chance, there's a topic for you I know the answers to some of this stuff But other people don't and you know what they say and querying minds want to know and he does give me some good Bullet points regarding guns to discuss number one What are the gun laws like down there in Latin America and have gun laws changed anywhere lately? Number two, or is that three? What are gun prices like? number four do middle and upper-class Latins use guns for sport and Are there gun ranges down there either indoor or outdoor? If not, could this be a business opportunity for expats and Next are you allowed to carry a gun openly? Is it advisable?

[04:44] Can you carry concealed and what's the ammunition situation if the cops can't afford ammo? Can you and more importantly what would happen if you actually had to use your gun? Would you need to find one of those no passport border crossings and go hide and please and then he tells a little anecdote He says an expat guy with a website discussing Ecuador Tells the story of when he first came down some five years ago He goes in an airport and sees a guy in front of him wearing a pistol in a shoulder holster The guy walks up to the x-ray machine with his baggage puts his bag on the belt Then unstraps his pistol and puts it on the conveyor belt to the officials run it through the machine and scan it and when it

[05:31] Comes out the other end the guy picks it up straps it on and gets right back on the plane Now that was Ecuador five years ago and apparently President Correa's made it so you can't do that anymore now here's another piece of another email on the gun subject from the same guy and It's also quite interesting. He says I've been to both Ecuador and Guatemala Overall, I like Ecuador better than Guatemala except for a couple of details, but they're very significant Ecuador he says seems to be squarely on the road to socialism There are many things to like about President Correa But I'm troubled by the direction he seems to be leading the country the Guatemalan elites on the other hand strike me as being Completely uninterested in attempting to use the device of purported socialist policies to consolidate their power

[06:22] That's unlike President Correa in Ecuador Then he goes on to say the Guatemalan government seems weaker and less able to control the people there and as far as the process for obtaining permanent residency in one of those two countries or Just about doing anything else involving contact with the government It seems a lot simpler and less restrictive in Guatemala Then he goes on to say I guess the bottom line is Guatemala seems much freer than Ecuador to me Okay, what you heard there were some excerpts from a frequent listener and friend of the show who's traveled quite a bit throughout Central And South America and his object was possibly to move to one of those two countries Guatemala or Ecuador after he visited both and sussed him out and now that we got a little bit of his political take on those

[07:10] Two countries. Let's talk about some of the points He brought up about guns down here in Latin America And first of all, let me say this since Latin America has had more than its fair share of revolutions and coups in The last 50 years or so. That means there are a hell of a lot of illegal guns floating around down here In fact, I've been told that there's more unregistered than registered guns and let me tell you this every country in Latin America Except Cuba allows its citizens to own guns and even in Cuba here You can get a gun license for game hunting and sports So a lot of farmers own rifles, but getting a legal registered handgun is nearly impossible down there But who's going to Cuba? Well, you'd be surprised a hell of a lot of Europeans and Canadians are down there right now

[07:58] They're touring and sniffing out business opportunities Because everyone knows when the Castro brothers died the place is gonna break wide open and it's gonna be a free-for-all so although now Cuba might be off your radar a Big part of the rest of the first world have been making big plans for the place But let's get back to that gun thing now early on in John's email He made mention that a lot of progressive radio listeners are vegans animal activists and anti leather and fur Which would seem to place them firmly in the anti gun camp Well in the recent past that kind of generalization might have been mostly true But I'll tell you what in my experience in meeting and talking to hundreds If not thousands of progressive radio listeners You'd be surprised that the changes that have come over the progressive movement in just the last five or so years

[08:47] That is as they sit back and watch their big brother government strip their rights probe their orifices at airports Catalog and store all their emails and correspondence and no doubt get tagged for any number of government watch lists That's how big brother fascist states treat squeaky wheels. You know squeaky wheels don't get the grease They get put on government watch lists our government or I should say your government is Effectively the enemy since they've teamed up with the enemy like Monsanto and big pharma anyway, the bottom line is most bright progressives and libertarians realize they're living in a fascist state and They know it's gonna get a lot worse The government is beyond broke and soon they'll take your guns your 401ks and your private pension funds and everything else

[09:34] They can get their hands on and since we're talking about guns Well, you know these days a lot of my own so-called free-thinking intelligent progressive friends up in Chicago Some who hated guns and would never have owned one ten or fifteen years ago Well, many of them now have had a complete change of heart Not that they like guns any more than they did way back when it's just that now that they're witnessing what's happening up in the States they're looking at guns as a defense against chaos and tyranny Like one of my engineer buddies up in Chicago says when society breaks down You need two things a garden and a gun and if you don't have that gun someone with a gun is gonna loot your garden And I'm sure you heard the rumor that Switzerland one of the safest countries in the world Well, they have a federal law that says every house has to have a gun and ammo

[10:24] That's their national defense system. Oh, and I forgot to mention that chaos in the first world has already started Detroit parts of Cleveland st. Louis and Chicago have already reverted back to the law of the jungle And if you don't believe it, I'll give you a Sunday afternoon driving itinerary through the streets of Chicago that you'll never survive But enough with the first world problems. Let's get back to our email now John mentioned that one big shock that hits new tourists when they first land down here in Latin America is The presence of armed guards with shotguns in front of most businesses and they're practically everywhere You see uniformed shotgun toting guys even in Coke Pepsi water and food delivery trucks

[11:10] I'm talking about guys with shotguns riding shotgun, which makes sense kind of I mean How many times have you had dibs on shotgun without the shotgun, of course? Well, let me explain why there are so many guys down here riding shotgun with shotguns Now if you've gone back and listened to any of my past shows I've mentioned a number of times that Latin American police forces are under educated incompetent and vastly underfunded which is why they occasionally hit you up for bribes and Because of that they cannot as the saying goes quote serve and protect The fact is they do neither. They're just there for the show I mean the average Latin cop has a sixth or an eighth grade education and a good 95% of them have never owned a car themselves

[12:01] So the cops on a force that are lucky enough to have a driver's license and thus get assigned to a police cruiser They basically use that cruiser as a personal family vehicle The fact is most cops in their police cruisers are parked somewhere Most of the day since they're only allowed a few gallons of gas on a shift and when you do see them on the road There's a good chance that a friend or a family member will be in the backseat since cops use their cruisers to do family errands So they're not out there serving and protecting they're out there parking and shopping And by the way, there is no cop donut connection down here either The cops would if they could but there's no Dunkin donuts and even if there were they'd be out of their price range So basically you cannot count on the national or local police forces in Latin America to do anything like a first-world job of policing

[12:52] They're just incapable of it. Not to mention they have to buy their own bullets Now let's wind back about 20 or 30 years ago back then when I visited Latin America The only places you did see shotgun toting guards like that were in front of banks and even so bank robberies were quite a frequent occurrence Usually with the guards being in on it Anyway way back when about 25 years or so ago about 80 to 90 percent of Latin American workers got paid in cash In fact back then almost no one would take a check for anything. It was cash on the barrel head or nothing Anyway back then there were so many bank robberies that banks began putting on more and more armed guards And hiring better qualified guards with military training

[13:39] Guards who would actually shoot back when fired upon and not hit the floor and weep at the first sign of danger So anyway after that thieves turned their attention to easier prey like Coca-Cola and Pepsi trucks Who they knew were also carrying a lot of cash around to them. It was a lot of cash anyway Maybe not to us because like I said back then even Coca-Cola didn't take checks So suddenly about 20 to 25 years ago Coke and Pepsi and the water companies and the food delivery trucks Started putting on armed guards, and that was a trend that kept continuing and continuing until today There are armed guards everywhere, but now since there's so many of these guys Almost none of these Coke and Pepsi trucks and stuff ever get robbed and from what I've heard a good percentage of these guys

[14:25] Have guns that aren't even loaded in fact I've even heard most of these guys have never fired their weapons not even once not to mention 95% or more of these guys have never been to a shooting range But still to a green gringo who's not used to that kind of presence these guys look kind of scary But do remember like I said it's turned into more or less a show The fact is even if these guys have never shot their weapons down here No one robs a coke a Pepsi or a wonder bread truck anymore Oh, yeah, and by the way, they don't have wonder bread down here They have this really horrible wonder bread clone stuff called bimbo bread You heard me right bimbo bread which kind of sums it up And it's just as squishy and plasticized and horrible as the virtually indigestible intestine clogging crap

[15:12] We all used to eat as kids only now because of the lag time effect latins are just now discovering the pleasures of wonder bread via bimbo and irritable bowel syndrome So anyway, if coke and pepsi and bimbo trucks aren't getting robbed then who is? In fact these days the three most common ways thieves get money in latin america Is number one by robbing people on public buses and public transportation, which is why I advise against ever riding a chicken bus And number two by stealing from a person who's just withdrawn cash from a bank So it's not an actual bank robbery itself it's a person in the bank like a teller who calls up a cohort outside and gives his accomplice a

[15:57] Description of someone who's just withdrawn some cash money so he can pounce on him when he gets outside And the third most popular scam for thieves is straight business extortion Which never happens with high-end businesses or in upper middle class business sections of town So if you have your business in a nicer area, you won't have to worry about it the fact is Extortion schemes like that always seem to take place in run down grunge here Middle or lower middle class sections of town where there are tons of mom and pop businesses Especially when they're situated close to a lower middle class residential area And these mom and pop businesses stuck in bad areas of town Just get a little note under the door one day saying you're gonna pay us 20 50 or 100 bucks a month for protection

[16:46] So basically it's the old mafia style protection racket and these extortion scams are always operated by local Gangs living in the area. And of course, like I said, the police do absolutely nothing And if you don't pay up the gangs will threaten your kids break your windows and damage your business or fire a few rounds Through your front door and by the way this stuff occurs in sections of towns usually big cities where smart expats almost never go The fact is we don't have to we go to other parts of town where things are calm secure and easy And of course, if you've been listening to any of my past shows, you know that already So anyway, I concur there are lots and lots of guys down here with shotguns guarding businesses And it is something to get used to at first after all that stuff just doesn't happen up in the first world

[17:34] But you know what I got a feeling in a couple of years. You're gonna see a lot of that going around It's already well underway in detroit cleveland and st. Louis just to name a few but let's not get too distracted here We're still talking about guns So let's hit on some more of john's bullet points First he asks, where are the gun laws going down there in latin america? Well for sure. There's a bigger push on gun registration Which is basically just a way for latin governments to squeeze more tax revenue out of gun owners So I wouldn't worry about it as a way for the government to keep track of you because they've got no resources or manpower So they just can't and like I said before down here I've never heard of a single crime being solved by a ballistics test In other words the cops and their forensic teams down here have never once

[18:21] Matched a bullet from a crime scene to a gun that was actually registered Even though every gun that's registered except shotguns, of course have a ballistics test done So they can get a rifling pattern which is supposedly filed and stored somewhere at the national gun registry Which believe me like every government office is in a chaotic mess So anyway, you register your gun or guns you pay your fee every year and you get a little plastic card It looks like a driver's license, which is basically your gun permit So if you've got an unregistered gun or two, you won't have one of those obviously And on the next bullet point in john's email he asks, is there any place the law has been changed lately? Well, there's a lot of talk in many latin american congresses

[19:07] Talk about limiting the number of weapons a person can have and from what i've heard The number always seems to be around 10 Why because I guess it's a good round number, but I suspect it's because latin congressmen can only count up to 10 Anyway, it's just talking. No one's passed any real concrete laws about it yet However throughout latin america, there have been some gun buyback programs Mostly being in mexico because they got such an out of control violence problem down there Now usually these buyback programs are on a city-wide basis Generally some hair-brained idea conjured up by some mayor or city councilman and all they seem to do is bring in the junkiest Rustiest non-functioning guns in a 25 kilometer radius Why is it that no one ever turns in a glock a sig sour or an ak-47?

[19:56] I wonder in fact, I just noticed that a town in mexico offered a gun buyback program actually a gun Trade program where you could bring in your gun No questions asked and trade it for a bicycle and again a lot of nice bikes were given out and a lot of rusty Non-functioning pieces of crap and off-brand garbage were traded in It was I think just another stupid idea that some idiot latin politician copied from a similar idiot politician up in the first world Anyway, the next question that john had in his email was what are gun prices like in latin america? Well, if you buy a gun legally and get it registered About double what that same gun is going to cost you up in the first world guns down here again are heavily taxed It's just another way for the government to soak gun owners

[20:44] Then that tax money gets wasted or stolen like all tax money eventually does down here in latin america It's a lot like how your first world tax dollars get misused and misappropriated only on a much larger scale up where you live So what about legal hunting and gun clubs? Yes, the latin upper classes do have their gun sports They have their gun clubs and shooting ranges and fancy and not so fancy gun shops everywhere And each country has its own big game and hunting seasons for example I don't know if you knew this but central america has a deer species. Well, actually more than one deer species They're very small versions of first world deer almost never weighing in at over 75 pounds And of course, they're supposed to have a deer hunting season here

[21:31] But the governments don't seem to monitor it and I think that's because the game and wildlife departments down here in latin america Either don't have any cars or vehicles or there's no gas for the junkers They've got rusting in their parking lots and about those game and hunting laws Farmers and big landowners don't know the details and could care less if they did so they always violate them And no one I mean no one's ever brought up on charges And if someone had been caught i'd heard about it or read about it in the newspaper at least But still you're going to the average guy's house down here Especially out of the big city and you might just see a couple of mounted deer heads on the wall Tiny heads that these big game hunters are also proud of and to us just look like somebody's idea of a joke

[22:18] Oh, yeah, when you see a mounted deer head or two They'll always be a couple of other oddball animal heads in the vicinity, too Some I guarantee you've never seen before So yes hunting is a regulated unregulated sport here and when you're out in the boonies locals will kill and eat anything that moves Including snakes iguanas jaguars and ocelots you name it They'll kill it and eat it which is another reason why latin governments will not pass restrictive gun laws Since they know the people out in the boonies would just laugh in their faces That would be about as crazy as asking a farmer or a gardener to have his machete registered Which would really be the joke of the century And then there's the question of gun shooting ranges gun clubs and upper class guys have their gun ranges

[23:04] But if you walk into any gun or ammo store They'll jot down a list of public and private gun ranges and they may be affiliated with one or two themselves And the fact is some big latin american cities Have public gun ranges where you don't have to be a member and you just pay to go and shoot Often the very same gun ranges that are subsidized by the government so that their military and police forces can go there in practice At least the ones that can afford to buy the bullets And what about openly carrying a gun? Well down here in latin america. You see it all the time Guys walking around civilians with a gun holster clipped to their belt Often you see guys on motorcycles packing heat the same way And yes, you can get a concealed carry permit too

[23:50] And to have a gun all you need to be is a permanent resident And to get that concealed carry permit any lawyer can help you with that Oh, and by the way So many people have a concealed weapon that if you get pulled over by the cops at one of those roadblocks The very first thing he asks when he taps on your window is porta armas Porta armas, which means are you carrying a gun and about the cost of ammo? Well, there's ammo everywhere and it is a bit more expensive than it is in the states But a lot of guys do their own reloading, you know, then it's extremely cheap And his final question about guns is the toughest one He asks what would happen if you actually had to use a gun? Would you need to find one of those no passport border crossings and go hide out in Belize?

[24:39] Well now it all depends if you have a lawyer or not Because that's one of those things you want to discuss with your lawyer personally when you go and get your first gun Registered because you know i've heard different advice from different lawyers on that But for one thing if you shoot a guy on your property or in your house, there's going to be no dispute at all You're gonna get out of it. The fact is down here in latin america There's never been a case when a crook who's been shot breaking in su's the owner of the house the guy who shot him Now you hear about that stuff all the time up in the first world Like the guy who got electrocuted when he was breaking into a convenience store. Remember that one He broke through a hot wired skylight and got fried and won a hundred grand judgment against the owner down here That had never happened

[25:25] And again because you're a gringo you have the gringo advantage When you walk into court with your lawyer, all eyes are going to be on you. You're the gringo You're the first worlder You're in the country to do business to invest to employ people or you're spending your money down here as a retiree And the judge knows that down here gringos always get the benefit of the doubt So if you shoot some scumbag and end up in court Which you will you just let your lawyer handle it now i'm not saying under certain circumstances You won't end up in jail for a day or two If for example you have a road rage attack and you get in a shootout at a street corner and your lawyer's not around Organize things and make a few phone calls Now don't laugh that's a situation that actually happened to one of my first world buddies down here being from texas

[26:12] He thinks he owns the road and does snap into road rage mode on occasion A lot of us do by the way that wasn't the first time he's had a bullet hole or two in his pickup truck And after hearing a story like that, you might think it's the wild west down here Well, it is if you want it to be but if you want it to be very civilized you can have that too But just remember this if you get involved in a gun fight Even if you kill a guy you'll get bail and for any crime bales about 1 10th or even 1 20th of what it would be up in the first world and i'm not advising you to do this But I know a case or two not gun related cases Anyway, where guys have skipped into a neighboring country after posting bail And though normally the judge will put an embargo on your passport So you can't leave the country until your case is tried

[26:59] But enforcement is so spotty that often it takes days or even weeks before an embargo order shows up at the airport computers or land border crossings Down here a guy with a little money and a lawyer gets the most justice And even better if you have money a lawyer and the gringo advantage you get even more justice if you know what I mean So do hook up with a lawyer as soon as you get down here get a lawyer before you ever need one Especially if your spanish sucks. You don't want to be the next episode of locked up abroad You've been listening to the expat files living in latin america Coming to you each week from somewhere south of the border

[27:44] And don't forget you can email me on anything at all about latin america the expat files at gmail.com See you next time Ah, she was a picture