Episode Summary
In this episode, Johnny Mueller dives into the lives of deported Latin Americans, their potential as employees for expats, and the challenges they face. He also discusses the booming call center industry in Latin America, the impact of Panama's energy crisis, and the opportunities it presents for expats and entrepreneurs.
Johnny begins by discussing the phenomenon of deported Latin Americans in Latin America and their potential as employees for expats. He highlights that these individuals often have rudimentary English skills and have been exposed to first-world practices during their time in the United States. Mueller suggests that hiring deported individuals could be beneficial for expats, as they can serve as translators and help organize business operations in a way that aligns with first-world standards. However, he also notes that these individuals may have a crude, street-level English and may not be culturally appropriate for certain interactions.
He then discusses the challenges of hiring deported Latin Americans, emphasizing that while they may possess certain skills, their background often includes a life of deception, crime, and marginalization. He argues that these individuals are not ideal hires due to their tendency to lie, manipulate, and engage in illegal activities. Johnny also shares a personal anecdote about his experience with expat Eddie, who faced significant issues when hiring deported workers, leading him to adopt a more cautious approach in screening potential employees.
Next, Johnny explores the challenges and motivations of illegal immigrants in the United States, emphasizing the economic and social disparities between their home countries and the U.S. He highlights the embarrassment and social stigma associated with deportation, the desire for a better life, and the complex web of family and legal implications that often lead to a cycle of migration and deportation. He also touches on the dangers faced by immigrants during their journey and the increasing risks of extortion and violence in Mexico.
He then shifts focus to the challenges faced by Latin American immigrants attempting to enter the United States, highlighting the risks of being targeted for extortion due to their accents and perceived illegality. He explains how some individuals use Western Union to transfer money in small amounts to avoid carrying large sums of cash, thereby reducing the risk of robbery. He also notes that many illegal immigrants are caught and deported multiple times, but unless they have other criminal charges, they are typically deported back to their home countries and may attempt to re-enter the U.S. later.
Johnny then discusses call centers in Latin America, explaining that while these centers are often staffed by individuals with limited English fluency, many of these workers are former U.S. deportees who have some basic English skills. He mentions that companies like Xerox have established call centers in Latin America due to the availability of cheap labor and the ability to avoid U.S. taxes. He concludes by noting that while call center jobs offer higher pay than many local jobs, they are also associated with high burnout rates.
Finally, the segment shifts to a discussion about the potential outcomes for individuals who have worked in call centers in Latin America and then decide to leave. He outlines three possible paths: returning to the United States with improved English skills and financial stability, transitioning to a more stable job with a TOEFL certificate, or working for an expat business. He also highlights the challenges of hiring such individuals, noting that they are often more skilled and disciplined than other deported individuals. The segment concludes with a discussion about Panama's severe energy crisis, which has led to drastic measures such as closing public schools, street signs, and entertainment venues. Johnny suggests that this crisis presents a business opportunity for selling solar energy solutions. The episode ends with an advertisement for an upcoming Latin American seminar.
Topics
Deported Latin Americans in Latin America, English proficiency among Latin Americans, Cultural differences in communication, Hiring practices for expats in Latin America, First-world vs. third-world practices, Hiring Practices, Deportation and Its Impact, Cultural and Social Challenges, Personal Anecdotes and Experiences, Deportation and social stigma, Economic disparities between home countries and the U.S., Family and legal implications of immigration
Chapters
00:00:00 Opening 00:00:32 Hiring Deported Latin Americans for Businesses in Latin America 00:01:43 Why Deported Individuals May Be Better at Discussing the U.S. 00:05:57 Introduction to the Topic of Hiring Deported Individuals 00:06:49 Johnny's Personal Stance on Hiring Deported Individuals 00:09:25 Eddie's Experience with Hiring Deported Workers 00:11:38 The Embarrassment of Deportation 00:11:57 The Economic Motivation for Migration 00:12:56 The Reason Behind the Migration 00:13:53 The Path to a Green Card Through Family 00:14:57 The Psychological Impact of Deportation 00:16:07 The Scale of Deportations 00:16:36 The Dangers of the Journey Back 00:17:29 The Risks of Being an Illegal Immigrant with an Accent 00:18:20 Western Union and the Illegal Immigrant's Money Transfer Strategy 00:18:46 Deportation Statistics and the Legal Consequences of Repeated Immigration Violations 00:19:33 The Call Center Industry in Latin America and Its Workforce 00:21:19 The Economic and Tax Advantages of Living in Latin America 00:22:02 Xerox's Call Center Operations in Latin America 00:23:08 Earnings and Potential for Return to the US 00:23:55 TOEFL Test and Job Opportunities 00:24:34 Working for an Expat Business 00:25:25 Panama's Energy Crisis 00:27:08 Business Opportunity in Solar Energy
Transcript
Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.
[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now as I wonder My thoughts ever straight Hi everybody I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files Living in Latin America the show that tells you what it's really like to live work play and or retire in Latin America I tell it just like it is so let's get started I've gotten a few emails lately from people asking me if it's a good idea or not to hire a Deported latin or two for their businesses down here in Latin America since number one There's so many deported latins down here, especially in Central America
[00:47] You run into them all the time though, of course, they'll never tell you that they were deported you'll just run into them in grocery stores and gas stations and local neighborhood get-togethers and birthdays and quinceaños parties and They'll see that you're a gringo and oftentimes They'll just mosey on up to you and start in with their broken English and street slang that they learned on the streets of Jersey Or Cleveland. Oops. There goes my C word for the day Anyway, many of them will just basically try to buddy up to you and their conversation will center 100% on the place or places that they lived or visited up in the states as if all we Ex-pats want to do when we're at a party is to talk about the joys of living in Camden, New Jersey And you know funny thing
[01:33] Deported illegal aliens are the world's best pitch men for the joys of living up in the United States You can just tell by their delivery that they just loved it up there So, of course, they never have a bad thing to say about it because compared to the situation they left behind in Salvador Bolivia it's a big step up even a scruffy Latino barrio in Atlanta, Georgia seems like Beverly Hills to them and How can you tell right off the bat that the guy you're talking to was deported as an illegal alien? Oh, and by the way, it's almost always Latin guys That'll come up to a gringo and try to befriend him Latin women as a rule even deported ones Just don't do that kind of thing. They're much more timid. So again, how can you tell right away that someone's been deported number one?
[02:20] The average Latin who's never been up to the states before will almost never walk up to a gringo and start a conversation Out of the blue even if he actually knows a bit of English I mean, let's face it for the average Latin off the tourist trail who's never uttered a word to a gringo before in his life Striking up a conversation would be way too forward now That doesn't mean it'll never happen a few times I've been walking alone in a small town and some guy will yell out. Hey gringo Keep us Oh benga benga. And when that's happened to me 100% of the time the guy's been totally drunk and remember this 98% of Latins off the tourist trail cannot speak English but they all know about 15 or 20 English words that they learned from television or
[03:08] Remember from an English class in public school like for example How are you or nice to meet you just like most citizens up in the states? know about 15 or 20 words or phrases in Spanish that they too picked up from television or the Taco Bell menu and Besides deported aliens. The only ones that really do speak passable English are Latins that went to expensive private schools all their lives those private schools whose main point is to give a kid a Bilingual education and since only two or three percent of kids in Latin America have parents who can afford that kind of school That means only a tiny percentage of Latins off the tourist trail can speak English and none of those kids are lower or middle class And those well-off rich kids and adults with very good English
[03:55] Still won't walk up to a strange gringo at a gas station or a party or in a grocery store and just strike up a conversation That's just not their style down here. It's just not culturally correct So again, the question is what about hiring some of these guys that got deported for your business down here in Latin America? I mean they speak pretty good English, but it is big city street English crude slang and all But you know in time you can train that out of them You could smooth over the rough edges and if you're off the tourist trail You just might need an employee like that to translate English to Spanish for you Since if you really are off the tourist trail your clients Probably won't be gringos or expats and if you're a new expat your Spanish just might suck like mine did in the early days
[04:43] So naturally you'll be on the lookout for a bilingual employee or two when you first start up So why not one of these deported illegal aliens? I mean look at the advantages to hiring a person like that first They've got some rudimentary or basic English skills down at least on the street level And they've been exposed at least while they were up in the States to the way first world people do things the way We organize ourselves and our lives as opposed to the generally chaotic way things are done down here in the third world Like for example the difference between cops and traffic law enforcement up there and down here so right off the bat if you hire someone who's been up in the States for a while you won't be starting from scratch and Having someone like that around who at least knows what you're talking about when you say for example
[05:30] Would you please arrange and organize the stockroom as near as you can to the way they do things up in the first world? And you know what that guy who's been deported will get to work on it right away And though he might not do a great job of it at least he'll have an idea of where to start Whereas if you ask someone who's never been up to the States before that very same question You'll probably get that deer in the headlights look now if you give instructions in English or Spanish to a person who's been living Up in the States for a while He or she is gonna kind of know what you're talking about and he'll have a good idea what your standards are and generally because someone who's been deported is actually a person of great initiative since they give up their Life in Latin America to pursue that so-called American dream without even knowing the language
[06:15] So as a rule people who've been deported from the States are pretty much self-starters But a person living down here who's never been away from El Salvador or Honduras or Guatemala Someone who's worked for Latin bosses all his or her life Forget about it You'll have to start from ground zero with a person like that and imagine how much more difficult that task will be if you don't Speak Spanish, but are those advantages good enough reasons to hire a deported Latin? Well in the end balancing it all I'd have to say no Now generally I myself would never hire a deported Latin except under certain conditions Which I'll get to later and the reason is you see just by the act of sneaking through a couple of countries borders and
[07:02] Evading authorities and obtaining fake documents and IDs and living a life of lies and descent Trespassing and stealing learning how to get by and how to get over on others just to survive I mean that is the life of an illegal alien in another country, isn't it? It's a tough life any way you look at it And they pick up a lot of bad habits and a lot of baggage along the way and that baggage comes right along with them When you hire these guys not to mention in that city or town they lived in up in the States They did not live the life of a law-abiding middle-class American far from it In fact, they lived in Latin barrios, which are basically reproductions of the lower-class life that they came from back in their home country and living in those Latin barrios
[07:49] They generally mixed with people who were in the same boat illegal aliens and poor and lower-class Latin families who also were not exactly outstanding examples of middle American life Not to mention Latin districts in big cities where all the Latins congregate and all the illegals naturally Those places are epicenters for those notorious Latin gangs You've heard so much about yet another place for the average Latin illegal guy or gal to pick up some very bad habits And it's not as if when you hire one of these guys He's gonna put any of that down on his resume And you know a while back when expat Eddie first opened some of his restaurants in Salvador some eight or ten years ago Back when his Spanish was pretty crappy and before he knew any better he did hire a few deported guys and gals here and there just because they spoke decent English and could act as go-betweens for his
[08:40] suppliers and deal with the rest of his Spanish-speaking staff and In the end he had problems with nearly every one of them And it turns out the rest of his Spanish-speaking staff didn't much care for those English speaking Latins either Because they like a lot of deported Latins ended up back down in their home country Copying a superior attitude to the locals but more on that later now You see to live successfully as an illegal alien in the States You're kind of forced into occasionally lying and manipulating people to maintain that status and the better you are at it The less you're likely to get caught and all that becomes part of your personality So suffice it to say that in the end Eddie said he had nothing but trouble when he hired deported illegals So expect Eddie's advice to everyone out there that might be hiring
[09:29] He's not saying you should never hire one But nowadays he plays it like this if someone applies for a job at his place speaking English And it's just chock-full of first-world street slang Then he immediately has the guy fill out an application in English And if his English spelling and usage is horrific then he knows he's got a deported illegal on his hands a guy who learned his English on the streets and not in the Classroom now here's another thing you should know most Latin males especially Once they've been up in the States a year or so and get caught and get deported the vast majority of them will do the same Thing again, they'll take a big risk again and go back However, if a young Latin guy or gal for example makes it up to the States for the first time and gets caught within a couple
[10:16] Of weeks or even after a month or two I'm talking about those unlucky ones who get nailed by immigration right away their first trip over When they get deported oftentimes they'll never go back they just don't want to experience anything like that again and Because they were only up in the States for a very short time never having even the slightest taste of the American good life Or the so-called American dream Then too They never did learn that street English Nor did they have time to get in with the gangs or the rougher elements in the Latin barrios up in the States So a one-time newbie Latin that's just been deported could end up as one of your best workers and one of the best ways to find out if the person you're Interviewing is a veteran border jumper is just to start speaking to him in English if you get a timid blank look at almost
[11:03] No response. Well, that could be just the kind of worker you want But if you break into English with the guy you're interviewing and he starts talking about the Knicks and the Red Sox and the drywall Company he worked for in Camden. Well, you should say thanks I'll let you know when we have an opening and show him the door or not depending how street smart you are Now when you hear the statistics about people being deported down here It's alarming and it's front-page news all the time in the local newspapers For example last year over 30,000 illegal immigrants were deported back to Guatemala alone So if you think you're not gonna run into guys like that all the time Well, you're fooling yourself. And yes, it's true. These guys and girls are embarrassed about being caught and deported Wouldn't you be embarrassed and closed-mouth about it for quite a while? These guys feel like idiots
[11:53] I mean, it's like being fired from a job. You certainly don't broadcast it But what's worse you see are the ones who've been up in the States for a while some years and I've put together Kind of a decent life for themselves at least compared to what they'd have to settle for down in their home country Back at home They have very few opportunities to advance beyond 300 bucks a month since the average illegal immigrant has about a 6th grade education Practically no one with a 6th grade education makes more than 300 bucks a month down here unless they're in some kind of illegal trade And let's face it. What else but in the good old us of a can someone who knows almost no English and with a 6th grade education End up with a car an apartment a big-screen TV air conditioning and the works now back in Central America
[12:41] And Guatemala Honduras or Salvador for example the average guy with a 6th grade education ends up with for one a lot of kids a house With cold running water and a tin roof with a wife that cooks meals with firewood gathered from the brush I mean That's the reason why people down here dump it all and head for the States If you can manage to pull that off all you have to do is slip into a big city And it's easy to go to any Latin barrio and hook up with some of the homeboys from your own city And chances are you'll have an uncle or an aunt or a couple of shirtsleeve Relatives living up there in Houston to who will be glad to take you in for a while till you get a job Maybe on construction or at an auto body shop, maybe in landscaping or industrial cleanup There are thousands of menial jobs that the average American won't take
[13:30] But illegal immigrants would give their right nut for and there's something else here You just wouldn't believe how many of the males that sneak in the United States hook up with Latinas in the body Oh and have a kid or two that way you see there's a very good chance that at some time in the future The guy can get a green card under one of those amnesty provisions that comes up once in a while like the one Obama's putting out feelers on right now since the kid you see if born in the States is an automatic American citizen And according to social services It just wouldn't be right to deport a guy while his kid a legitimate citizen is living up in the States at least That's the so-called logic of it and also of course a huge Backdoor incentive for a guy to impregnate some woman up in the States. That's about his only shot at a quick green card
[14:20] Oh, and by the way most of these guys who do end up having kids up in the States They've also left behind a family and kids down in Latin America, so you tell me how screwed up is that? So you see after a lens snuck into the States and has gone on to Houston to live for a couple of years And he's tasted what he thinks is a little bit of the American dream the big-screen TV the apartment the refrigerator the washer dryer And a nice car things he might never have gotten his hands on head He stayed back in Honduras Well unfortunately if and when he gets deported when he ends up back in his home country along with feeling depressed that he's hit The skids again the fact is he's also feeling a bit superior to his fellow countrymen since he's the one that tasted the good life
[15:05] And will never be satisfied unless he gets back up there again, so think of it like this It's as if you were a young 20 something up in Chicago when you got married had a nice job And then suddenly you got laid off and had to move back in with your folks again Talk about slamming on the brakes and shoving it in Reverse. What a letdown how depressing is that? Now I've been told that's the way Latin feel who've been deported except They have no safety net like people do up in the States after almost living like a middle-class American They're back to living in their parents cold water flat with a dirt floor and a tin roof So that's the other thing if you hire one of these guys to work for your Latin business It's a good chance He's just not gonna show up one day because he's hoofing it back to the States now
[15:53] We all know there's a revolving door with illegal immigrants going back and forth to the States all the time in fact last year between 400,000 and a half a million illegal immigrants were deported back to their home countries the vast majority over 95% Being shipped back to Latin America now this might sound crazy but the fact is I've met at least a half a dozen guys in the last few years Latin guys who've been deported more than Four times and they all tell me that it's by no means an easy journey And even the ones who've done it a few times and know the ropes They say you shouldn't leave home to do the trip if you don't have a minimum of a thousand bucks in your pocket And you really shouldn't have it in your pocket at all because you'll probably get rolled for it in Mexico In fact in Mexico, it's become big business to assault cheat rob rape roll and sometimes kill
[16:43] illegals passing through to the United States since they're also passing on through into Mexico illegally people from other Latin countries basically have no rights and would be considered criminals if the cops picked them up there and more often than not Mexican cops pick on The immigrants so they can extort from them, too And since some of them are carrying at least some money in some possessions. They're the easiest marks imaginable One here's another thing. I'm sure you never knew I didn't either one guy who's an old hand at going back and forth He told me it's getting worse It's getting harder and harder to get through and he said that the problem for other Latinos passing through is Mexicans all over Mexico can spot an accent from any other Latin country in a second
[17:29] So they know as soon as you open your mouth that you're illegal and your intention is to slip into the states And that makes a guy or a gal with an accent from another Latin country a prime hit for extortion or worse So the question is if it's so dangerous. How does a Latin hayseed? Let's say from Nicaragua get through Mexico without getting robbed Well get this you save up your thousand bucks in Nicaragua And you give it to your mother or your sister and have her wire it to you by Western Union as you need it Wired to the Western Union offices at the cities you're passing through as you make your way through Mexico on through to the states So if there's a total of maybe five to ten small wire transfers along the way you're not carrying any real money on you
[18:16] So if you get robbed you don't get hit for the whole nest egg So bottom line you first-world folks up there you can thank the good folks at Western Union For greasing the skids for all those illegals that have landed in your neighborhood Oh, and by the way, there is a statistic on how many repeat offenders get caught and deported again according to federal immigration authorities 44% of all the illegal immigrants caught and deported have been caught at least one time before and According to the US immigration and naturalization services if you're caught two or more times in the US as an illegal immigrant You can be sentenced to up to two years in federal prison But that almost never happens unless the deportee has other criminal charges pending
[19:02] So if you're an illegal with a clean record other than being caught for being illegal, which doesn't make sense You get deported back to your home country Where you're more likely than not to save up another grand or so and slip right back in So like I said for a lot of reasons, it's not a good idea to hire these guys for your own little business down here They've got just way too much baggage However, there is one exception to that rule, which I mentioned in a past show I told you that down here, especially in Central America. There are over 250,000 people working in the phones in English at big-time call centers And of course anyone who's ever called customer service at Sears or office depot or Microsoft or Apple Just might want to meet a call center rep face to face and strangle them to death
[19:50] I know more than a few first world people in Chicago who share that sentiment Now down here in Latin America. Where do you think all those call center employees come from? Of course call centers hire a small percentage of high school and college kids who have decent English skills to start with But it is quite rare to find kids like that who are actually at the 60 to 80 percent English fluency rate Required to get the job in the first place It's like this that small two or three percent of latins who learn their English very well at these expensive private schools They're certainly not taking jobs at call centers because their parents have money and connections and a job at a call center Well, that's too low on the social ladder And they'd just be embarrassed if anyone found out their kid worked at a job like that
[20:37] And worse yet, it only pays about three to five hundred bucks a month And of course wealthier parents are grooming their kids for much bigger and better things For example one middle class parent. I know when we discussed call centers She said i'm not paying three thousand dollars a year to send my kid to an expensive bilingual private school So that he could end up at a call center Please not my little Julio Anyway, like I said before When you see call center ads in the paper and you see them all the time huge half and full page recruitment ads And these companies are all first world companies that came down to latin america specifically to start up these big operations And they did it for two reasons one down here It's very cheap labor and two down here. They pay no us taxes
[21:25] Even though 95 of these call center clients are us or canadian based now I'm not complaining that they don't pay us taxes In fact, that's one big reason why you should be down here right now, too So you don't have to support a corrupt and crooked system either Because remember if you live down here you get that 95 000 foreign income tax exemption a perfectly legal way to stick it to the irs So if you come on down on april 15th You can pop some champagne and celebrate with me or you can sit up in new york and cry in your beer your choice So what about those call centers? For example, one of the biggest call center operations throughout latin america is owned by none other than xerox That original friendly copy machine company
[22:12] They branched out with the call center business because they saw the writing on the wall. They saw that japanese copy machine companies were beating the hell out of them So they had a choice to wither on the vine and die or branch out And they chose well because call centers are huge now Anyway, the requirements are stated in these big recruitment ads that you need 60 to 80 percent flu in english to get hired And then the company will train you up to 100 percent Now where do you think they get these people from with this 60 to 80 percent fluency? Well a giant percent of their labor pool were deported from the us. They already have a certain amount of skills They can speak english, but they can't read or write it very well And that's why they train them up and like I mentioned in a previous show call centers have a huge burnout rate
[23:00] In fact the average employee who's on his phone with his headset eight hours a day only lasts between six to eight months before severe burnout sets in And the only saving grace is that they can make four or five hundred bucks a month nearly double what the average guy makes down here Now three things could happen with someone who's quit one of these call centers after six or eight months one It could have been the plan all along to work a while and slip back into the states And this time they have a much more balanced and less crude command of the english language a pretty damn good plan Really? I mean you're much more likely to land a little better job up north And with better english and more money to start with it's easier to blend in and avoid immigration So you got about a third of burnt out call center workers trying to play that game
[23:47] And the second plausible thing that'll happen to a burnt out call center worker Is that now after six or eight months on the job and a high level of fluency in english Now they can go out and take that all important test called the TOEFL TOEFL standing for test of english as a foreign language Now if you pass that test you can get any number of decent white color jobs down here in latin america All you have to do is look in the paper. All big corporations are hiring people with TOEFL certificates So with one of those under your belt, you could pretty much write your own ticket However, you're probably still only going to start at around four or five hundred a month And after that it's up to your own perseverance and skill to work your way up the ladder like any company employee And the third thing that could work out for a burnt out call center worker
[24:34] Is that he or she ends up working for you in your new expat business? Which could be a very good deal for both of you However, you're going to have to pay a little bit more to get an employee like that Because their skills are worth more on the open market down here Which means you'll have to pay at least 400 a month to hold on to one of these guys So there you have it That's my exception to the rule of not hiring people who've been deported from the us And by the way when you interview someone who's worked at a call center You can tell right away that they've had all the bad habits whipped out of them There's a big difference between them and other people who've been deported who know a bit of english at your job interview Now to change the subject a bit for all of you out there who think you might be wanting to move to panama
[25:20] One day based on some international living articles or seminars or whatever Now, of course, as you know, I don't recommend panama at all However, if you've got your heart set on it i'll give you another couple of reasons why it's a very bad idea New reasons I haven't brought up before now just this week It's been news all over latin america that panama has a severe energy crisis and for years we always thought that panama and costa rica were in terrific shape in regards to energy because Both of those countries rely heavily on hydroelectric power a great renewable resource that uses no fossil fuels However, no one figured on the fact that they would be afflicted by a terrible drought And most of the water reservoirs are so low right now that they're not producing electric power at all
[26:08] So there's a huge crisis Especially since a great amount of their power Goes to operating the panama canal lock and millions of gallons of water have to be pumped each day To raise and lower the lifts or the ships won't get through So how's the panama government going to solve that problem? Oh get this It's the panama locks not the people that are the priority since big taxes and government fees come out of the canal zone The government ordered that starting this tuesday All public schools are to be closed for three days and all street signs to be shut off after sunset until further notice But that's not all the energy crisis is so severe. The government has just ordered the closing of all bars cinemas casinos restaurants discotheques malls and commercial centers to close at 10 p.m
[26:57] On mondays through fridays. So again, i'll ask you why would you ever want to move to panama? But if it's still in your plans, it looks like there might be a great business opportunity here How about selling complete turnkey solar panel off the grid energy kits the perfect niche for an energy crisis? And I assure you it's only gonna get worse Oh, and by the way before we finish today I have a few spots left for my week-long latin american seminar coming up in late june Just go to expat wisdom.com and click on the seminar link for full details for the border Down mexico way That's you've been listening to the expat files living in latin america Coming to you each week from somewhere south of the border and don't forget you can email me on anything at all about latin
[27:48] America the expat files at gmail.com See you next time most famous Ah, she was a picture