Episode Summary
In this episode of The Expat Files, Johnny Mueller discusses the nature of his podcast, explaining that he does not provide detailed outlines at the beginning of each episode due to his 'stream of consciousness' style of broadcasting. He mentions that he is compiling a comprehensive package of his first 400 shows with an index for easy reference, which he expects to complete in about two months. He also addresses a listener's email about the practice of Latin American stand-up comedians borrowing humor from U.S. comedians, noting that this is common and that the 'lag time factor' means U.S. trends take time to reach Latin America. He highlights the recent rise of comedy clubs and open mic nights in Latin America, predicting a future Latin American version of a comedy channel.
Johnny Mueller discusses the cultural and comedic differences between Latin America and the first world, particularly focusing on the reception of humor. He argues that humor in Latin America is more physical and simplistic, often rooted in traditional forms like slapstick and knock-knock jokes. Johnny contrasts this with the more sophisticated humor of first-world comedians like Chris Rock and Eddie Murphy, suggesting that jokes from the first world often fail to translate well in Latin America due to cultural and social differences. He also highlights the prevalence of machismo in Latin cultures, where men are seen as the providers and always right, which affects how humor is perceived and received.
Johnny Mueller discusses the lack of basic curiosity among many Latin Americans, attributing it to educational systems and cultural factors. He contrasts this with first-world individuals, who generally exhibit more curiosity, though he acknowledges that not all first-world people are curious. He also highlights the creativity of Latin Americans, particularly in mechanics, where they fabricate replacement parts for old vehicles, often without original parts. Johnny shares personal anecdotes about his own curiosity as an engineer, including his experiences with taking apart appliances and building equipment, which he contrasts with the lack of similar curiosity among Latin engineers he has met. He attributes this difference to factors like limited access to cars during adolescence and the availability of cheap mechanics.
Johnny Mueller discusses the cultural and economic factors influencing the development of scientific and engineering talent in Latin America. He highlights the lack of curiosity and creativity among Latin engineers and scientific types, attributing this to the class system, the absence of hands-on experience with technology, and the educational system's focus on liberal arts degrees rather than practical skills. He also comments on the outdated perception of higher education in Latin America, where attending university is still seen as a guarantee of a successful career, despite the reality that most degrees lead to dead-end careers.
Johnny Mueller discusses the educational landscape in Latin America, highlighting the lack of quality in liberal arts and business degrees at public universities, the affordability of public education, and the importance of learning English for better job prospects. He also touches on the cultural use of the term 'wetback' in Latin America and the challenges young people face in following his advice due to family pressure to pursue higher education.
Topics
Podcast format and structure, Content creation and curation, Cultural differences in humor and comedy, Trends in entertainment and media, Cultural differences in humor, Machismo in Latin cultures, Translation of humor across cultures, Comedy in Latin America vs. the first world, Curiosity in Latin America, Education systems in Latin America, Mechanical creativity in Latin America, Comparison between first-world and Latin engineers
Chapters
00:00:00 Opening 00:01:23 Stream of Consciousness Broadcasting 00:01:45 Comprehensive Package of Shows 00:02:49 Cultural Differences in Humor 00:05:02 Rise of Comedy Clubs in Latin America 00:06:00 Theft of Comedy Bits and Legal Consequences in Latin America 00:06:27 The Future of Comedy in the First World and Its Potential Market in Latin America 00:10:06 The Classic Joke That Fails in Latin America 00:11:46 Perception and Curiosity in Latin America 00:12:51 Curiosity and Creativity in Latin America 00:13:30 Mechanical Creativity in Latin America 00:17:40 Mechanics Are Everywhere in Latin America 00:17:54 Class System and Manual Labor in Latin America 00:18:44 The Lack of Curiosity Among Latin Engineers 00:21:11 The Illusion of University as a Career Guarantee 00:23:55 The Value of Higher Education in Latin America 00:25:24 The Importance of Learning English for Career Success
Transcript
Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.
[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now I wonder Hello there all you expat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started Now, you know, I get a lot of emails from people saying Johnny Why don't you tell us at the beginning of the show what you're gonna talk about? So at least we've got an idea right away up front where you're gonna go with it That sure would make life a lot easier for us listeners Of course as most of you know if you go to prn.fm or expat wisdom calm
[00:50] There is a blurb saying what I'm talking about on that particular show And it is as you know, never 100% complete I just kind of jot down some basic show descriptions after I've done a show and have to come up with something Well, let's just say my short-term memory and attention span ain't what they used to be So then the show descriptions that you get are very very basic because I do wander into a lot of other things as you know So here's the thing when I sit down and start doing a show. There's no way at the very beginning I can lay out what I'm gonna talk about not completely. Anyway, that's for sure It's what I call a kind of a stream of consciousness broadcast In other words, I might have three or four things I want to talk about but as I get into topic one Well, as you know, it could go anywhere So that said if I concentrate at the beginning of the show to give you a list of exactly what I'm gonna talk about
[01:40] I'm sure people would start calling me on that. It'll never quite track completely But the good news is I've been spending time here and there putting together a package that will include the first 400 shows that I've done along with a large index that can be crossed reference to the various shows and topics I started that a couple months ago before I hit my 400 show and now that I'm at about 410 I'm actually about half done. So I suspect in maybe two months or so I'll have a complete package for you that'll run about 200 hours believe it or not now a big package like that on simply the topic of being an expat in Latin America No one else out there in the ether has ever done before So I'll keep you posted on that and for all you people out there who've been asking for such a thing
[02:26] Your pestering is working and I'm finally getting off my dead butt to do it. So stay tuned for more on that Speaking of emails I got one the other day from someone who must have gone way back into my archives, you know Doc back to show maybe 56 now this one's from a guy who's a stand-up comic in the States And he didn't want me to use his name a pretty famous stand-up comic by the way now he heard one of my shows where I was mentioning that Latins as a rule do not have the same kind of a sense of Humor that we do up in the first world now in his email He also referred to the fact that I mentioned that a lot of stand-up comedians down here in Latin America blatantly Ripoff first world material they take tried and true old first world skits and bits Translate them to Spanish tweak them a bit for Latin audiences and proceed to make a whole career out of it
[03:17] Meanwhile never giving any royalties or credit to the original comic and never losing any sleep over it either because no one's checking And as far as copyright and stuff like that. Well, they're jokes. So who would know right? But remember I mentioned if you heard that show the sophisticated stand-up humor that's evolved in the United States over the years When translated to Spanish does not make people laugh in Latin America. It just goes right over their heads I mean, of course the dumb and dumber style of jokes do they transfer quite nicely however sophisticated humor forget about it What I'm saying is that stand-up comedians down here in Latin America are stealing old first world comedy bits From the US's golden age of stand-up comedy in the 60s 70s and 80s in fact right now any Latin stand-up comic who knows decent English could get on YouTube and go all the way back to
[04:09] Your show of shows with Sid Caesar and the Johnny Carson show and the honeymooners and the Steve Allen show Just translate that stuff into Spanish and blatantly rip it off and the smart ones do now You know, I always talk about this so-called lag time factor meaning things that are popular in the first world do not end up in Latin America for some time and Depending on what it is. It could be anywhere from six months to 20 years Now we all know that up in the US the heyday of stand-up comedy and comedy clubs on every corner Peeked more or less in the 80s to the early 90s And you know, most of us remember going to those kind of clubs until it got kind of old like disco and karaoke But wouldn't you know it down here in Latin America? The lag time effect is kicked in
[04:55] Stand-up comics and the comedy club thing is trendy and there's no sign of it peeking yet Comedy clubs in Latin America concept that almost didn't exist at all before maybe five years ago are suddenly popping up all over the place And certain bars and restaurants that normally would have just lounge style Entertainment are getting into the act too and having stand-up open mic comedy nights, too. Wow. What a concept, huh? Now that's not to say that stand-up comedy and comedy clubs, etc Are not popular up in the states, of course they are but they are not what they used to be I don't know about you But most of my friends way back when just kind of burnt out on it In fact up in the states these days things like the comedy channel are losing viewership not gaining and here's my lag time prediction for Latin America within a year or two there will be a
[05:45] Latin version of a comedy channel and it will be hugely popular for a while However, because a lot of these Spanish language programs end up going to the United States where there are heavy Latin populations like LA Chicago New York, etc It's possible some of those bits just might get noticed by the very gringo comics these guys stole from then there'll be some hell And some lawyers to pay now That's not to say that up in the states comedy and comedy bits don't get stolen and plagiarized all the time But down here in Latin America pirating of such stuff has been raised to an entirely new level So anyway, recently I did get this email from a somewhat famous stand-up comedian and from what he says in his email stand-up comics Up in the first world are kind of facing a pretty bleak future. It's that old Adam Smith's supply-and-demand problem
[06:34] So he's thinking there just might be a market down there in Latin America for his kind of humor Well, I got news for you There won't be because Latin humor is in no way as intelligent or as sophisticated as first world humor At least the way stand-up comics presented in clubs and such up in the states In fact, I know a couple of very upscale Latin kids whose parents have real money and they sent their kids to University up in the states and now they're back in Latin America being fast-tracked into Daddy's business, etc And when I was at one of these guys houses He was playing a Chris Rock DVD and when I asked him about his favorite Latin comics He said are you kidding always the gringo wannabes, huh? But back to that email Anyway, our own first world stand-up comic in his email to me. He said, you know, Johnny
[07:23] I don't really get what you're talking about a sense of humor I found seems to be Universal people rich and poor seem to laugh at the same things I've found if like you said in your past show Johnny You can take a successful joker bit that works real well up in the states and translate it to Spanish Maybe with a tweak here and there and it works then. What are you really talking about? Well, anyway, I'm saying to this comedian and you guys out there It's got to be a very simple real basic joke or they just won't get it It won't translate correctly because you know They're in the pre-lenny Bruce pre Richard Pryor pre Chris Rock pre Eddie Murphy Basically the early stages of comedy that came right after the slapstick days, you know, the Three Stooges days
[08:09] In fact, like I said in the past show the Three Stooges the original Three Stooges films that are what now? 70 years old or something are still run all the time and hugely popular down here So as nasty as this might sound Latins are into what you might call non thinking jokes Simple mostly physical even stupid jokes Maybe a 12 year old or a 10 year old kid will say to his friend or his mother, you know Like knock knock jokes, etc So when you're down here and you hear some latin guy or gal or kid say don't own Kienes, that's a knock-knock joke instead of knock-knock. They say don't own which is to n to n Oh, and by the way, knock-knock jokes are very big down here, too I mean, come on does that not tell you how sophisticated the audience is down here
[08:55] I mean once the last time you heard one of those coming from anyone other than a 6 or 10 year old kid So anyway, just know that even if you're Spanish is spectacular If you go to a stand-up comedian show down here in Latin America or watch any of the so-called comedy TV shows Just be prepared to squirm a bit at how awful it is You know that uncomfortable feeling of being embarrassed for someone else not yourself Well be prepared for some of that too And you know don't think that when longtime expats get together, we don't talk about such things Remember a big percentage of long-term expats have a significant Latina or Latino other Who is likely to drag you to one of these comedy clubs or comedy shows? So naturally when us long-term expats get together these things do come up
[09:41] But let's get back to that point our stand-up comic said when he said he believed that humor and comedy were Universal that we all kind of laugh at the same things and though he says he's been to places like Tijuana and Cancun and Europe He speaks just a little Spanish and has never performed in a third world Well, then let me just give everyone an example here that kind of says it all. There's this old joke You've probably heard it goes like this if a man speaks his mind in the woods and His wife is not around to hear him. Is he still wrong? That's when you pause and wait for the laugh Now let me tell you that joke almost never fails to get a laugh for the first world audience Now if you translate that into Spanish, you'll get zero laughs
[10:31] Your average Latin even near above average Latin person just won't get it I know I've tried that joke on people and it doesn't work and why do you think that is? Well, how about this one for starters Latin America being a very macho society Here the man of the house is always right. He always wins the argument because he's the provider He's the guy that brings in the dough Now, I'm not saying there aren't the occasional fights between men and women down here You see him all the time But the man always wins the woman gets her two cents in but the guy wins the argument always and believe me if the argument Goes on too long and the man feels he's not quite winning He'll slap her around a bit and then it'll be over because you know physical family abuse down here is epidemic
[11:16] In fact, I've never met an adult Latin woman who says she's never been slapped around by her man Anyway, as far as getting the Joe the only Latin folks that just might get it are ones that have been up in the states For a long long time and of course spoiled kids of wealthy Latins who've been to school up in the states They'll get it because they're gringos by proxy that said now I'll ask you why you think that joke doesn't work How could it when it's the reverse down here and the guy always wins the argument? You see what I mean? It's not only a social and a cultural thing, but it's also a matter of perception Now on a similar note on a past show I mentioned that most Latins you meet lack basic curiosity because when they go to school whether it's a free D grade public school that
[12:02] 95% of the population goes to or one of the expensive private schools expensive in Latin terms That is the most expensive of which as gringos call helicopter schools, by the way And yes, you guessed it Some of these have heliports and helipads at the school and some kids are dropped off in helicopters every day Can you believe that now one expat gringo teacher? I know has been teaching at one of those schools for I think 11 years now He tells me he's just so sick of seeing these horribly spoiled entitled kids in helicopters He's got this secret fantasy when the kids jump off the helicopter of slapping the kids and the parents right in the face Oh, and by the way, I have a very very good story to tell you about this gringo expat teacher coming up in a couple shows
[12:49] So you won't want to miss that So like I said before the average Latin even the above average Latin lacks what you might call basic first-world curiosity And of course, I know some first-world people that don't seem very curious at all about things But as a rule first world people beat the pants out of Latins in that department now Let's not confuse that with creativity because the Latin world has some great top-notch artists, etc And don't forget the average Latin mechanic and body man can take an old Ford or a Datsun or a Honda and keep that thing Running 30 40 sometimes even 50 years often without buying one single original replacement part I mean look at all those 1950s era cars that are still running in Cuba
[13:34] They've had no original car parts in that country since 1959 So how do they do it? Well mechanics fabricate the replacement parts. They can't get I mean certainly that does take a hell of a lot of creativity, but we're talking about Curiosity here, and that's the hallmark believe it or not of any good scientist or engineer now as you might know in a past life I was actually an engineer myself Anyway, what I did notice when I was in the field that the best of them were the most curious and had a very very wide range of interests not just let's say satellite communications computers or Nanotechnology or microwave transmission Although these guys may have been in narrow fields like that. They had greatly diverse interests They watched little or no TV and read everything even the glade and liquid plumber labels while sitting on the toilet
[14:26] and one sad thing I've noticed concerning engineers of the past in my day as Compared with younger engineers today whether in the first world or the third world is that old-school engineers like me and the ones I went to school with we all when we were young high school guys went through a kind of a Motorhead stage took apart motorcycles and cars and lawnmower engines and stuff now whether we got them back together and working again It's another thing But we had that curiosity to find out how those things worked without someone telling us to do it not to mention back then all The guys and gals I went to engineering school and by the way They were actually I think two girls in my class of a hundred anyway We were notorious tinkerers our parents all had stories of us taking apart toasters can openers washing machines
[15:13] Microwave ovens again. We didn't always get them back together working properly But if something mechanical or electrical was broken around the house We'd gladly take a shot at it in fact We looked forward to things breaking down so we could jump in and start tearing things apart And that included electrical wiring and plumbing etc in fact I remember taking apart a broken can opener and a radio and I think it was like 11 years old in fact I've got a nice deep scar on my thumb to prove it Oh and get this way back when there was a company called Heath kit They had a catalog where you could buy all kinds of electrical equipment and build it yourself You know like amplifiers and stereos and radios etc And I remember when I was 13. I ordered a guitar amplifier, and I put it together myself
[16:00] soldered and connected every part and even though it was maybe half the price of a real fender or martial amplifier the whole point of It was that I'd got to build it myself And as luck would have it when I flicked the switch it didn't work But you know that's just a point you learn a hell of a lot by doing all those crazy things yourself And yes to remind me of that experience I have a nice burn scar from a soldering iron on my left forearm So why am I bringing all this up the fact is I've met a lot of engineers and technical types down here in Latin America And they're all very good in their own narrow chosen fields though Not one that I've ever met has been through those little growing pains I just mentioned that first-world engineers and scientific types always seem to go through the motorhead stage and taking everything in a house apart stage
[16:48] No, Drano label reading on the John bottom line. They seem to have a kind of a scaled-down Curiosity compared to the engineering types. I knew up in the first world and of course no scars to remind them of experiments gone wrong now Naturally since I'm the kind of person who wants answers even partial answers are better than nothing I've brought these very points up to a few young Latin engineers that I've met and they actually have pretty good answers as to why It rarely goes down that way for engineers and scientific types down here in Latin America For one thing when these kids were adolescents most of their parents didn't have cars So forget the motorhead thing right the fact is 10 or 20 years ago only about 10% of Latin families had a car and another Latin engineer told me if an engineer students parents were in that 5 or 10 percent that did own cars car
[17:40] Mechanics then and now are so cheap and there's one practically on every corner in a residential neighborhood That there was no monetary incentive for their kid to take a crack at fixing the car Because you see in Latin America with the upper middle classes It's a point of pride that the family never engaged in manual labor Remember the class system is alive and well down here No parent would ever want his kid outside looking like a grease monkey fixing the car The neighbors would think the family had fallen on hard times can't have that now which shows you what's in the minds of upper middle-class Latins now with stateside men no matter rich or poor often You'll see him on Sunday waxing and polishing their cars on the front lawn You'll even see all classes of men up north mowing their lawns and what do the neighbors think they don't think anything
[18:29] It's normal whereas down here in Latin America if you're an upper middle-class Latin person You wouldn't be caught dead polishing or waxing your car or even mowing the lawn You have the gardener the maintenance man do that can't let the neighbors think you're falling on hard times now Can you and now for all those engineers and scientific types that come out of the middle classes? You know the classes like I mentioned whose parents didn't have cars Well, the truth is 10 or 20 years ago when they were kids growing up. There were very few appliances in the house They could take apart and ruin Back then average Latin families did not have electric can openers and trash compactors and dishwashers and even Clothes-dryers they still don't microwave and ovens have only been in the average Latin Americans house for the past 10 years or so and
[19:17] Computers well like I mentioned before only about 15% of Latin Americans are on the internet Connected at home. Of course here in Latin America these days Everybody's got a smartphone at least a very cheap one which of course connects to the internet But that's only occurred in the last two three years and even so a curious young Scientific type wouldn't dare open the back of one of those and dig into it because believe me poking around in there with a screwdriver Is only gonna make things worse turns out cell phone electronics are so densely packed if it's screwed up somehow 95% of the time you're better off just tossing it and buying a new one Anyway electronics these days are quite different than when I was growing up and things were first being developed these days You just replace whole modules. So anyway back to Latin engineers and scientific types. Oh, it's true
[20:07] There are many universities that graduate these scientific types down here and once they graduate and get out there They're good in their chosen field in a narrow sort of way boy. Don't I sound like a pompous ass, huh? But you know what I'm in the club, you know the engineering club so I can rip on them all I like, right? What I'm saying for example is if you come down here to start your own IT company or need some technical guys Scientific types that is you'll find them. All right, but don't expect them to pick up the ball and just start running with it You're gonna have to do a lot of hand-holding along the way to get them in with the first world flow of things the saving grace of course is that you'll be able to buy engineers and text and stuff for 500 to a thousand bucks u.s. A month. So what they may lack in curiosity and creativity
[20:56] You can make up for in volume, you know higher two or three of them if you have to Yeah, I know. I know I sound like an asswipe saying that but it's true That's the way it is until proven otherwise and speaking about education lack of creativity and curiosity And lag time. Did you know that in Latin America? Mothers still brag to high heaven about their son or daughter that guess what is Attending college because you know down here in Latin America It's like it was in the 60s and 70s where middle-class America Was in that big push of sending their kids to college and most parents of that generation were only high school graduates Way back when 30 or 40 years ago parents had bragging rights when their kids went to university
[21:44] So fast forward a bit to right now in Latin America where mothers and dads still bust their buttons when talking about their son or daughter Attending college like that's some kind of guarantee of getting a job in your chosen career Man are those parents in fantasy land because you know as it turns out down here in Latin America about 98% of people going to university are in Absolutely dead-end careers like business administration sociology education graphic design psychology Drama any liberal arts degree, you know the fun stuff the cool careers the ones that afford a lot of free time to party and When you graduate get a job at Starbucks, nope that won't even rate you a night management job
[22:31] Sorry, though, you will get that 10% employee discount that said When down here in Latin America as a visitor on someone else's turf when any Latin mother slips in that little bit about how proud They are that their daughter or son is going to the you La ooh, which is the university you can tell in her voice that the whole family is banking on the kid graduating Somehow pulling the whole family up by the bootstraps. Well, you don't want a dissuader of that illusion Just pull your best fake smile and say, oh, that's wonderful Congratulations. That said, you know, I have to say I'm tired of giving advice to young Latin kids who come up to me and say Johnny, what's your career advice to which I always say or used to say anyway Stick to the medical field or the hard sciences and you'll always get a good job, you know engineering mathematics chemistry biology
[23:24] All subjects that'll wear you out mentally and won't give you any time to party But unfortunately they asked for my advice But they really don't want to hear it because they look at me and give me that look of glazed boredom Like they were really expecting me to give them a break and say something cool and fun like broadcast communication tourism psychology hotel management or some such rot now I can understand why down here Hard-working middle-class parents are proud of their kids that are going to university It really is a big thing since at most two or three percent of Latin Americans have a college degree as opposed to up in The first world where about forty percent have a bachelor's degree Either way, it's wasted time in a fool's endeavor
[24:09] But luckily down here college kids have one huge thing going for them They can't get student loans pay as you go in cash or credit card or you don't go at all So as 95% of Latins graduate in dead-end careers, at least they don't have killer payments for the next 20 years In fact, they have no payments at all and note that public universities are virtually free down here in Latin America Though all the liberal arts and business degrees at a public school are crap If you take the sciences, you'll get a good education because science is science And what I mean by virtually free is that I've never seen a tuition over five hundred dollars a semester Usually it's more like a hundred bucks and as for those private schools which have much better teachers though are more expensive
[24:56] They range from about five hundred bucks to twenty five hundred bucks a semester and note private schools offer quite a few scholarships So for poor and middle-class students whose parents have no dough Their bright kids can often get scholarships to private schools Oh and by the way nowadays when Latin kids asked me to give them the lowdown on what would be a good career I don't even waste my time telling them about the sciences. Instead, I give them one great piece of advice I say learn English and learn it well And I'm not talking about illegal wetback English that you learn on the streets of East LA either And by the way, the word wetback down here in Latin America is a common non derogatory word Everyone and I mean everyone uses the term moja though, which means wetback
[25:41] Go ahead look it up and you'll see it in the paper and you'll even hear it on nightly news broadcast Yes, it's derogatory up in the States down here It's in common usage and has no more negative connotation than the phrase illegal alien Anyway, like I said I always advise young Latin people that they should learn their English Well the Queen's English or at least Cleveland English because that's really the only Guaranteed way to get a little bit better paying job down here in Latin America In fact, all you have to do is look in the help wanted ads and you'll see every tenth ad says They're looking for someone who's bilingual so for example if a secretary down here gets 300 bucks a month a Bilingual secretary gets four or five. So that's the advice I give learn your English and learn it
[26:28] Well, but you know what when I run into those young people later and ask them how it's going almost none of them have taken my advice because there's so much pressure in the family to go get a college degree and Note like I said before the vast number of people who get college degrees get them at public schools Which are virtually free sure ostensibly you could learn English at those schools They have English classes, but they're taught by teachers whose first language is not English But Spanish and they learn their English from a book or from someone else who learned their English from a book in other words It's not good. Whereas at those so-called expensive private schools. They actually have gringos teach in English Why do you think there are so many English teaching jobs for expats down here? Oops? We're getting to the end of the program now
[27:14] So let me remind you that I still have some spots available for my January 2015 expat wisdom seminar in Central America Just go to expat wisdom comm click on the seminar link and check it out I'm over half-filled now so time to get off the fence and get that plan be in motion. You know, you need one South of the border Down Mexico you've been listening to the expat files living in Latin America coming to you twice a week from somewhere south of the border Email me the expat files at gmail.com and don't forget to check out expat wisdom comm to sign up for your free Reports on Latin America. See you next time. No swaymos