#413 – The Expat Files: Nazi War Criminals, Krupp Legacy, and Life in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border, down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now I wonder Hello there all you expat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started now I'd like to speak about something I've never spoken about before in the over 400 shows that I've done over the years I've gotten maybe a dozen or so emails with people asking me some very touchy questions And if you think they're asking about perverted sexual things

[00:47] Well, they're not though. I get those kind of questions too and we'll save those for another show anyway They asked me if I've ever run into one of these old Nazi war criminals or someone that's a kid of one of these escaped Nazi war criminals because you've heard so many times that a lot of these guys escaped to South America In fact, some war criminals have actually been caught and dragged back to face international court tribunals And since you know, I've only got about a dozen or so emails on the subject in the past four or so years I never thought there was that much interest in talking about such a thing But you know, if you've ever taken a trip through especially a place like Argentina, especially on the boonies Occasionally you come across these perfect quaint little storybook villages that look like they were transported directly from the Bavarian Alps

[01:36] Any of you guys and gals out there who've ever hit the countryside in that part of Europe You know exactly what I'm talking about. Alright, so you say that doesn't prove anything But did you have to ask the question? How did they get there? how did so many Germans and Austrians find that place to create a little replica of what home used to be like and Believe me these little way out mountain towns were not built for tourists. That's for sure Now I've been to little South American enclaves like that and I can tell you if you didn't know you were in Latin America You'd think you were in some kind of Twilight Zone dream In fact, there've been a few times down here where I've been to Bavarian style restaurants and hotels And even parties and stuff where people have just spontaneously broken into Germany

[02:22] And it's not your average short brown Latin type. That's Brecon see Deutsch either You never see that happen The fact is as you travel through the outskirts of the big cities in South America on the odd occasion You will spot a tall sandy haired or blonde Nordic-looking European type or even two or three together Sticking out like sore thumbs amongst the short brown natives and note that especially in South America There are lots and lots of German and Nordic sounding first and last names How'd that happen and you might find it interesting that every Latin American city over 200,000 people that's probably around 500 cities to Anyway, every one of these cities has two schools one called the German school and one called the Austrian school

[03:11] And they're K through 12 very private very exclusive. So what's that all about? Well, they're Tri-lingual schools not bilingual owned and operated by a German staff Surprise surprise, huh? Where German is the second language not English though English is mandatory, too So you've got Spanish German and English in that order that said you might think this is all very flimsy Circumstantial evidence having little or nothing to do with the possible influx of Nazi war criminals in the 40s Well before you dismiss all that let me tell you an amazing personal story now way back when about 20 years ago I spent a little time in Buenos Aires Argentina and as what usually happens to me I end up running into some people who own radio and TV stations and people from the American and British and

[04:01] Various embassies and I get invited to parties very mixed parties I might add with the only common denominator being that most people were powerful and had a lot of money now since that was very Early in my expat career I did really kind of enjoy meeting the high rollers in society though It didn't take me long to realize that most of them were scumbag Military and political ass wipes and their brown-nosing sycophants as well as deranged Sociopathic power broker types and I mean that in the kindest way So at first I do admit I was enamored with those human colostomy bags because back in Chicago I was out of the political loop and never did get invited to a party where there was anyone present who wielded that kind of

[04:46] Fame and power on a national scale back then in Chicago My crowd were scientists and engineers and entertainers and rock and rollers So when we got together, we'd sit around and make fun of military and government types, you know But once I landed in Latin America and really didn't know anyone and started getting invited to all these parties It was just curiosity and human nature that made me accept those invitations with great gusto I might add I mean, come on What better way to see how the other half lived and actually enjoyed myself quite a bit Why not? It was high-end free frat pays and whores ovaries and the best of the best liquor like expat Eddie always says no food or drink tastes quite as good as when someone else is paying for it and Most of the time it was you and Uncle Sam picking up the tab

[05:34] Because it's the US Embassy US functionaries and US backed and sponsored NGOs that pull out all the stops when they throw those big shindigs and they do it all the time But believe me, even though the food and drink is all top shelf The people certainly aren't soon enough you start seeing through all these pompous weasely characters and man You really do start hoping someone will drop some cyanide in the Johnny Walker and put them out of their misery But then we'd have lost expat Eddie too. So be careful what you wish for Anyway, like I said about 20 years ago I got invited to a string of such parties in Buenos Aires Argentina and Note when you go to such parties in the same town over and over or even a huge place like when a setters

[06:19] No matter how big or small these shindigs are you start seeing some of the usual suspects? They show up over and over again, you know It's that upper 1% thing and in the case of Latin America It's that upper 0.1% thing always the same guys and gals who know and hang with each other and one such guy I kept seeing over and over again a very classy and dapper European looking type guy a guy that really stuck out tall white sandy blonde and all that now This guy was like about six foot two. So he towered over most Latin Americans Just picture that actor from Lord of the Rings, you know that guy big o Mortensen Well, this guy was a ringer for him only about 20 years older now back then I was new to this high-end party going kind of thing

[07:06] And I was invited to this thing not only because I was a gringo But because the owner of the mansion where this shindig was held happened to be the owner of the radio station Where I had just been hired to start on the 7 to 9 a.m. Morning radio slot So there I was in this multi-million dollar pad standing in the dining room by some priceless sculpture Not knowing anyone but the owner and the owners spoiled entitled 20 something Sun who I can't get rid of So I'm standing there with the owner's young son who wants to be my friend and buddy in the worst way That's by the way when the gringo advantage is working against you. So it's me him two other guys I don't know and that very dapper Viggo Mortensen looking guy

[07:51] So everyone's standing around exchanging pleasantries and the owner's son introduces me as Johnny Mueller the radio guy and suddenly the dapper guy turns to me his face lightens up and he says Hmm Mueller and started conversing with me in German. However, I don't know any German except maybe I don't be there in the swear words. So after he went on for about 30 seconds. I stopped and I said, hey Wait a minute. Sorry. I don't speak German and then he said in almost perfect English with a little German accent He said but you are German aren't you Mueller bit the umlauts, right? And I said, yeah, my parents were from Germany, but I was actually born in Chicago Then he said your parents were born in Germany and you don't speak German. What a shame

[08:38] Why not your parents didn't teach you and I said, well, you know My parents came over between World War one and World War two and there was heavy anti German sentiment in Chicago even though there were a lot of Germans there and a lot of German beer makers, too And you see my parents only spoke German to each other when they didn't want the kids to know what they were talking about And then he looked at me kind of cockeyed and he said oh So they were ashamed of being German then and I said, no, they weren't ashamed It's just that you see my grandfather had a big farm on the outskirts of Chicago and with the name Mueller farms Stenciled on the side of the trucks when Hitler started up with all his crap. My grandfather started experiencing Vandalism with his trucks, especially when he'd park them and he wasn't around things like busted windows flat tires

[09:28] Swastikas scratched into the side of the door even cans of sauerkraut dumped on the car seats Nothing real serious, but my grandma and the ladies in the family got kind of worried so they took the name off the trucks and They laid the law down and said to their kids if you want to grow up good Americans without that German stigma You won't speak German around the house and ditch the umlauts on the name So that's the way it was and when I grew up and went to high school and took a language because you had to take it To qualify for college. I actually took French. Of course, I should have taken Spanish, but who'd have thunk, right? So anyway, I'm in Argentina back in 93 and 94 I think it was and suddenly this dapper old German guys bonding with me and man

[10:13] Let me tell you this guy was old school. He smoked those French Gold was cigarettes must have cost him a fortune to smoke those things in Argentina And he had a beautifully engraved gold cigarette case the kind you see in those Humphrey Bogart movies You know and by the way, his first name and I'm only gonna tell you his first name was Dieter Dieter a nice Irish name, right? Not likely Anyway, like I said I ended up going to a few of these parties and I kept on seeing this guy and because we knew each other a little Bit after that first ice-breaking incident. We started talking and telling a few stories And here's what I found out about my old new buddy Dieter. He told me that his grandfather was Friedrich

[10:59] Alfred Krupp now you might know that name Krupp from that innocent little coffee maker sitting on your counter That's about what's left of the Krupp dynasty today. That's k-r-u-p-p. I didn't say corrupt I said Krupp if you know your history, you'll know that Krupp supplied Kaiser Wilhelm in World War one with all the big cannons and armaments that pounded Europe you historians out there might remember that big Bertha the Krupp showpiece was the biggest mobile cannon ever made the cannon itself was 150 tons and shot a projectile eight miles and Who made that massive stuff Krupp industries and then Hitler made very good use of the Krupp armaments factory, too

[11:46] And Krupp supplied most of the big armaments for the German side in World War two Oh, and by the way Dieter told me that his grandfather committed suicide because back then around the year 1900 some newspaper or periodical outed him as being gay even though he had a couple of kids and All the while while he's telling me I'm thinking this is outrageous if this is BS This guy's really got his story down But why would he lie about a thing like that and you know this is all before the internet and stuff So I had no way of looking this stuff up Anyway, the next time I saw him was believe it or not at a doctor's office. Talk about small worlds, right? Well, it wasn't that much of a coincidence because at one of those parties I happen to have met a doctor and made an appointment with him So they were all running in the same circles. Anyway, we spoke a little bit in the reception area

[12:35] Why not and we walked out to the parking lot together Then he said I want to show you some come on over to my car So we walked over to his car a late model Mercedes Benz by the way and he handed me a book and by the way This guy who was apparently extremely loaded and powerful had no bodyguards And when I asked him why he didn't have any he said who needs the exposure Only latinists play silly bodyguard games So anyway, he handed me this book and said if you want to know the real story about my family read this book But I want it back and that book was called the arms of Krupp and it was in English And it was the entire history of the Krupp dynasty going all the way back to about 1840 it laid out exactly how Dieter's grandfather's company became the biggest arms manufacturer in the world

[13:26] Always like he said, unfortunately in the big wars always on the wrong side So anyway, he gave me a copy of this dog-eared book written I believe in the late 60s called the arms of Krupp and as I started reading it I noticed he had underlined all kinds of little passages and he'd scribbled in the margins aunt this and uncle vat Great cousin on mother's side so-and-so and illegitimate nephew that so after reading that thing I had just a million questions for this guy, but I didn't know him that well So the next time I saw him to give the book back And I had it in my car driving around with it for I think two or three months before I ran into him again This time at another one of those extravagant taxpayer funded events and naturally the question came up as to whether he was in the guns

[14:14] And ammo business anymore And he said no all of that was dismantled after the war and he said after the war a couple of his uncles got Convicted of crimes against humanity and went to jail for a couple of years, etc. Etc And you know, I don't know why he told me the next thing, but I was shocked at what he said next He said when the war came around World War two that is he was way too young to be an insider in the family and he Had gone to private prep schools boarding schools and all that and when he was 22 He got commissioned right out of the university as a second or first lieutenant. I can't remember He said even though he was totally green They put him in charge of get this that defense batteries the armaments at Frankfort Airport And like he said, he didn't have any experience with any of that kind of stuff

[15:01] But because of his name and family history and background, etc, etc He became officer in charge of the anti aircraft batteries. He said it was a very cushy job Now eventually the conversation just had to get around to how he ever ended up in Latin America Argentina to be precise and of course I really wanted to know how he ended up on top again since the corrupt organization was dismantled He said well, I got here right after the war, but it wasn't easy Especially he said because he was an officer and he had that background now on certain points He was very evasive, but I guess I'd be too though. He did. Tell me this He said, you know in the crop company my great grandfather started this

[15:47] tradition in an effort to make a big impression to cultivate clients like the French or the Russians or the Turks My grandfather had these tiny scale models of working cannons Perfect in every detail and they actually worked they fired They were something like one 24th scale models of one of our most popular cannon production models And when he made a presentation He'd give these things out to queens and kings and crowns heads of Europe and such as gifts great marketing Though they were toys They really worked and they helped seal the deal and Dieter said over the years his grandfather must have made 200 of these things and there's still a few in some museums their collector's items Well, then he put on kind of a crooked smile

[16:33] He said after the war when I made my way through Spain and finally ended up here in South America All I had was one big suitcase and one of those little cannons It only weighed like 8 kilos. He said which is around 20 pounds and then came the shock He said you remember that movie the Maltese Falcon? My little cannon was painted flat in ammo black, too Now all of those little cannons were painted black But a few of those cannons were made out of gold not solid gold But pretty close then he said back then gold was thirty five dollars an ounce Now if you had one of those gold cannons, it had about 400 ounces in it worth maybe $15,000 now, of course, that doesn't sound like a hell of a lot now

[17:22] But back then it was a very good start now at that point after being stunned at the way the conversation was going I got him talking about the time He was running that battery of anti-aircraft guns at Frankfurt Airport And he told me something that really shocked the hell out of me. He said at that airport They had a big medical and dental facility where the officers would come and go and get their teeth fixed and get checkups and all That stuff He said he'll never forget one of the strangest moments in his life when he went into one of these big hangers a gigantic Quonset hut to have his teeth checked and worked on He had to go back quite a few times because he was getting a partial denture made It was a beautiful piece of bridge work. He said that lasted him more than 40 years He said when it finally broke in the late 80s and he went to the dentist in Argentina

[18:10] The dentist he said actually took a few pictures of it because he'd never seen anything like it You see it was made out of gold now Of course you've all heard of gold crowns and gold teeth But this was a gold partial denture a big piece of gold with wires and hooks on it That you could take out of your mouth every night and clean now Normally these things are made out of chrome cobalt or stainless steel, which was why the dentist was so amazed He never saw a removable gold one before and Dieter said when that thing was being made and he'd come in for fittings Something happened that he'll never forget He said when he was in that big airplane hangar that was converted into a medical dental center There were a bunch of little dental cubicles with about 10 or 15 dentists working on various patients in

[18:57] One part of the building and in the next room through a set of swinging doors There were maybe 10 or 20 dental technicians busily making partial dentures and crowns etc for all the officers that were filing in and out of the place daily and he said His cubicle was close to the door between the technician's room and the regular dentist's operating room with Technicians whipping in and out of that door all the time carrying casts and appliances and molds, etc And Dieter said every time they open that door He'd catch a glimpse of a big pile of old worn teeth and jewelry and fillings the raw material For all the new dental work that was being done for these German officers

[19:42] Now Dieter said he and of course all the dentists there knew that this material all came from the Nazi prison camps So in effect for 40 years, he was carrying around this prison camp Nazi gold in his own gold bridge work What a revolt and thought huh? So I said something like how does that make you feel? He says it's just something you block out when you're young and try not to think about not a very comforting answer But who's gonna argue with him, right? So then let's get back to that idea of German war criminals in South America Well, I can tell you this Obviously plenty of them slipped in here But that old devil time has done his deed and ninety nine point nine percent of those guys have to be dead

[20:27] Ten to one so is Dieter and if he's alive He's got to be 95 without a tooth in his head to brag about so it was Dieter and escaped war criminal himself Well, I kind of have my doubts, but we'll never know because he's up in that big rice stag in the sky now or Sucking down oatmeal with a straw But one thing's for sure the kids of these war criminals that slipped into South America are doing fine Many owned some of the biggest and most profitable businesses down here in Latin America Remember a lot of these guys and gals have been down here a long long time some of them born down here and basically First world all the way so they had that gringo advantage going for them, too Though of course back then they weren't exactly gringos, but they were first world in every way So they came down when Latin America was basically a rustic third world outpost

[21:15] Not ten or twenty years behind the first world more like 50 years or so behind So bottom line you're never gonna actually run into anyone who served in World War two But don't be surprised if you run into a tall Nordic or Aryan looking guy that you're just sure is European Don't bet on it. Just because he's white very tall and has sandy light or even blonde hair Some of these guys and gals were born and raised down here in Latin America Yet their German is absolutely perfect as well as speaking perfect Spanish, too And over the years I've run into a few of these guys and gals and you do get the feeling sometimes that their parents Who are no longer with us of course have spotty backgrounds though? I've also noticed that their kids and grandkids who are in high levels of Latin society are blissfully unaware of

[22:05] What their parents might have been into which only makes sense right? I mean let's face it if right after the Second World War you were a Nazi that happened to slip out and get to South America once you've gotten settled in your new country That's the last thing you'd bring up in polite conversation, and if you think that story I just told you about the corrupt connection is a one-off deal think again Oh, and by the way Dieter's last name was not Krupp at least he didn't go by Krupp Which I guess is par for the course right so anyway if you think Dieter's story is a one-off deal listen to this There is a famous chalet type German Swiss restaurant You could call it in yet another Latin American country way off the gringo tourist trail And I've been to that place maybe eight or ten times myself and the menu old world German cuisine all the way

[22:56] And of course unlike the vast majority of restaurants in Latin America This place is impeccable the woodwork the hardwood paneling the hand carvings the cuckoo clocks that chime every hour Perfection you could eat off the floor probably eat off the toilet seats in this place German Teutonic Craftsmanship and detail all the way and it's maintained in that perfect condition and this place has to be 40 or 50 years old Anyway one day. I was visiting one of my long-term expat friends who owns a couple of these Makila clothing factories down here in Latin America and I happen to bring that place up and I had to mention how spotless and clean and organize the place was and how it really Was a nice touch of the old world and then my friend said yeah, I know about that place

[23:43] I go there once in a while But did you know the owner passed and left his kid a secret room in that place? That's just loaded with Nazi memorabilia. He said I know someone who's seen that stuff with his own eyes Who knows but I gotta believe this guy because I've known him for what 15 years now Anyway, those are the kind of stories and the kind of conversations you get into when you've been down here a long long time That said as good old Jack palance used to say believe it or not Okay, before I forget I have to remind you once again of my expat wisdom seminar in Central America in and around Guatemala this time in January 2015 So just go to expat wisdom calm click on the seminar link and you'll get all the information

[24:31] You have been thinking about putting together a plan B now, haven't you that said you do need boots on the ground There is no better way to do that and get on the fast track to becoming an expat and I still have some spots left For the January seminar again, go to www expat wisdom calm and sign on now lately people have been asking me Why Guatemala? Well, don't think this seminar is just a promotion for becoming an expat in Guatemala Although I do recommend certain parts of Guatemala for first world expats There are many other Latin countries that are off the gringo tourist trail equally expat friendly one of the many reasons for doing this seminar in Guatemala is to show People how a country that's way under the radar and one that gets bad marks from the US State Department

[25:19] Website is actually a very excellent place for expats to live and do business I'll take you around personally and show you that Guatemala has all the first world amenities to note I could have selected another under the radar Latin country like El Salvador Paraguay Bolivia, etc But as it turns out flights to the Guatemala Airport are very frequent and inexpensive in fact less than half the price of your average fare to a South American country and it's only two or three hours flight from most US cities and another very good reason the event will be set in Guatemala is That I have many long and solid contacts there So we'll be visiting businesses and factories owned by long-term US expats

[26:04] Who've had some amazing success stories some failure stories too, of course, but that's a bump in the learning curve We hope to jump you over so you'll hear plenty of stories like that from the horse's mouth You know, I do get a lot of emails from guys and gals up north in Milwaukee and Cleveland, etc Etc asking me why such a high percentage of expats do so well once they get down here Even if their Spanish sucks and they're on limited funds Well, here's a chance to see for yourself how short and long-term expats are making do how they've pulled it off See for yourself how so many expats end up living the life of Riley So get ready to hear some strange and wonderful stories from the horse's mouth because we'll be hanging with expats and having dinner with them

[26:50] Etc, etc And you know after you meet all these expat friends of mine, they'll become friends of yours So you can have a real good network of contacts when you finally get off the fence and decide to make the move yourself Ask any expat and he'll tell you there really is nothing like having a network when you first get down here That's a comforting feeling and really greases the skids for anyone who's planning on coming down So again, what's your plan B? You got one if you don't come on down to my expat wisdom seminar Like so many past attendees have said there's nothing out there like it And you know having boots on the ground can only multiply your chances of success You've been listening to the expat files living in Latin America coming to you twice a week from somewhere south of the border

[27:43] Email me the expat files at gmail.com and don't forget to check out expat wisdom calm to sign up for your free Reports on Latin America. See you next time nos vemos