#486 – The Expat Files: Romantic and Legal Challenges in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now as I wander Hello there all you expat wannabes I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started Okay, it's time to get really really on PC as you all know I don't touch a whole lot on Romance and love and relationships and stuff though that stuff is a real big part of living down in Latin America In fact living anywhere

[00:45] I guess that said I'm gonna stir makes combine and paraphrase from some of the many emails I get from people Mostly guys talking about love hate sex friendships and relationships here in Latin America one. Let's not forget revenge That's often an integral part of the breaking up of any relationship, isn't it as well as hopefully some kind of resolution First let me throw a real negative email at you This one comes from our relatively new expat living down here for some I think two years now And I might add part of the reason he left the big treadmill up in the first world to come down here he like so many middle-aged gringos had a history of long sad and terrible romantic relationships up in the States as I've mentioned in past shows There are many many gringo lonely hearts down here who jump right back into the frying pan

[01:33] Of course, they're not intending to do that It's just that new fresh green gringos most often don't know enough Spanish to meet communicate with and Successfully play the dating mating game with a normal middle-class Latina You know a nice beautiful down-to-earth lady just going about the normal business of life without a particular agenda by agenda I mean to trap a gringo one by getting pregnant to by getting him to buy her things that would normally be impossibly beyond her reach like for example an SUV Then of course There's the old cliche about Latin is trying to get gringos to get them a green card so they can live happily ever after In my jammy. Yes, dear listeners. Some Latin ladies do have those agendas Fresh green gringos will tell you it's very very difficult to go out with a Latin girl when he speaks no Spanish and she speaks

[02:24] No English, which is why so many fresh green gringos hook up with a girl who speaks some English And that's usually a very bad choice as I've said in past shows So many of these English speaking latinas live on or near the gringo tourist trail And they know a little English is a huge advantage in the mating and dating scene They know if they hook up with a gringo He'll support her in a first-world style or better and he'll take on all the baggage. She may have maybe a couple extra kids Parents family there is always a family yet And as the old saying goes marry a Latin girl and you marry her family in a support financial sense In fact, I remember so well when I was dating a very beautiful schoolteacher in Honduras. She taught English wouldn't you know it?

[03:10] What a sucker I was but that was 20 years ago And I noticed that from day one every time we'd go out for dinner She slightly hint that we can't go back to her house empty-handed We have to bring some food home for mom dad brothers and sisters and grandma and let's not be cheap in order from the middle Or the bottom of the menu either wouldn't want to look cheap in front of the old man I mean he brings down 300 a month a guy who takes his wife to McDonald's once a year for an anniversary present Again not to degrade the guy in his job He was working hard to support his family, but there were many more small irritating signals like that And generally as fresh green gringles will tell you after they've hooked up with an English-speaking latina The little favors and the purchases for her and her family get more and more involved and expensive and soon enough

[03:55] Her mother needs a new washing machine dad a new TV and the young sister and over-the-top Kinsae Anyos party which the family can ill afford but wouldn't that nice gringo boyfriend kindly kick in for the DJ the disco and the catering Remember it's all about the family wanting their daughter's Kinsae Anyos party to top every other Kinsae Anyos party that happened in the neighborhood You get the idea if you don't set the ground rules early, and you don't say no a lot Chances are if you're romantically involved with a Latina that speaks English it very well might end in disaster So early on I got sucked into a few situations like that myself So did I bail before I got in too deep? I'm not telling then why are fresh green gringos so stupid in love and romance well

[04:43] There's an easy answer to that I'm talking about single guys of course well many times They're reeling from some recent bad relationship up north and are vulnerable not to mention soon They see that in general latin women are definitely more kind caring and attentive to their men Then the ladies they were involved with back up in Milwaukee or Cleveland and believe me. It's no act It's a cultural thing. I know I'm gonna take heat for that statement But you have to come down here to see it for yourself Some people think it's because most young first-world women go out and get a job and support themselves So they're self-sufficient and quite independent by the time they're 20 or 21 which most latin women are not you know They live home with their parents till they get married and sometimes still they don't leave And even when they marry they often don't work or just get a small part-time job back down here

[05:33] You could say the family unit is somewhat the way it was in the states back in the 50s and 60s where mom Just didn't work or maybe she worked a part-time job So the latin man brings in almost all the money and therefore makes the rules with an iron fist as in many US households in the 50s and 60s so first-world women these days are Infinitely more liberated than the average latin woman now speaking of the way latin women treat their men down here You can instantly see it in action when you're walking down the street. You're in a mall or at a bus stop Whatever it's not unusual at all to see a latin couple kissing and snuggling while the whole world watches Only down here the whole world isn't watching because it's just so damn common however when us gringo see that

[06:19] We always pointed out to each other. Hey have a look over there young people in love God You'd never see that in the states. We're way too reserved in any way. What would people think oh and by the way another thing gringos Notice right off the bat as they start getting into relationships with latin women and this one always shocks us to the bone the man in the latin woman's life is always number one always and When that first kid comes around if it does or if she's got some past kids from another marriage or previous Relationship you are still number one the man always maintains that number one position with her What I'm saying is to her the job's not number one nor are her girlfriends nor her family You are number one and you'll find out that's true from the start in fact

[07:05] Like expat Eddie always says when giving advice to green gringos if you don't feel like you're number one when you're with a latin Girl, then you better get out in a hurry because she's probably playing you and you know He's right. That's a very good benchmark if you're out in a public space like a mall for example or food court Whatever and she's not paying extra special attention to you everything else in the place looks a bit more interesting Then it just might be time to look for an escape hatch Quoting one very cool expat wisdom seminar attendee slash Kenny Rogers look alike You got to know when to hold them know when to fold them now at the risk of sounding sexist even misogynist Some would say I crossed that line a long time ago anyway again I'm just giving you the highlights and the lowdown on what really happens down here in gringo latin relationships

[07:54] And of course I won't leave out those relationships between American gringas that come down here and latin guys, too There's a can of worms for you. We'll get to that sticky subject in a minute, okay? Let's get into that email from that gringo who's been down here a year or two This is from someone I know for a fact who's had nothing, but stormy relationships up in the states Like I said, that's one of the big reasons many gringos come down in fact sometimes It's the straw that broke the camel's back anyway Gun-shy or romance shy whatever you want to call it as so many gringos are when they come down here Often when they start into the latin mating and dating game they're overwhelmed in a good but at first sometimes Embarrassing way with those public shows of affection because in Anglo gringo land with adults that rarely happens

[08:41] I ask you when's the last time you saw some heavy smooching on a park bench on a subway platform or in a mall Bet you can't even remember so here's that email Johnny lately I was talking to an Italian who has retired to Latin America He was giving me horror stories of others having relationships and marrying Latin girls He says now that since the majority of divorce slash family law judges in Latin America are now women The laws are prejudiced in the favor of women from what I understand in most cases if a woman simply says she's been raped The judge rules in her favor and the man can be imprisoned for decades He told me this story about a fellow Italian who married a Latin woman He had a rental home that they lived in after three months. She decided she didn't want to be married anymore

[09:30] I think she moved out for a while Then said she wanted to give it another try and moved back in the meantime She'd gone to a judge and gotten an order with this order She threw him out kept the rental home and all the possessions in it and he had to provide Support for her for the rest of her life in the end He said the husband was never called for a hearing when the woman got the order When he went to court to try and stop it all the woman showed up in court and that's when the guy Found out about the order judging from this you'd have to be quite paranoid or nuts to try to have a relationship with a Latin woman Or you might have to have a pre-nep for both extended relations and a marriage. So what about it Johnny? What's a guy to think? Sincerely Frank now, of course, I paraphrase that a bit so as not to personalize it or step on anybody's toes anyway, Frank

[10:19] Here's what I got to say about that I've heard many many dozens maybe even hundreds of stories over the years of gringles who've been wrong by Latin women do note I'm very leery about second-hand stories like that. You didn't hear it from the guy You heard it from a friend of a friend, right? Let me tell you Frank You have to really hear these stories from the actual people who claim they've been wrong and especially in the mating dating and hating game Often when these things ever do get to court both sides of the story are completely different now gringos Think about your own romantic misfortunes up in the States I'm sure if you got divorced and you went to court when both people have a chance to tell their own side of the story Under oath supposedly it certainly would seem to outsiders listening in that both of those people were living with a two-headed monster

[11:04] I think it was George Carlin who said how is it that we marry the most beautiful wonderful person in the world? And we end up divorcing the biggest scumbag son of a now Frank far be it for me to give advice about mating dating and Hated but since you asked I can't tell you how many dozens and dozens of times I've seen green gringos usually within the first two years of them being down get Completely and utterly involved in a relationship with a Latin woman whose agenda was Absolutely to take the guy for everything she could now You see when Latin women get together just like any women I guess they like to talk Their favorite topics being the guys they're married to are going out with and believe me when next Pat gringo brings his new girlfriend Or a love interest to meet the rest of the crowd

[11:52] You know the other gringos and their husbands and wives whatever the long-term gringos like yours truly who've been down here quite a while And I've seen a lot it only takes about a half an hour or so for the other Latinas in the group You know the girlfriends and married ladies of long-term gringos to have picked up precisely whether that new Latina love interest in the group is a nice well-adjusted person or is a gold digger or has some other kind of agenda Now why it only takes about a half an hour or so for a group of Latin women to pick up on the exact Wavelength of a newly arrived Latin woman and it takes us stupid gringo males sometimes a year or more to figure out we've been had I don't know again It might very well be the fact that so many newly arrived gringos are bouncing off bad relationships up north and suddenly they encounter that typical

[12:43] Latin women trait of genuine caring and warmth and affection that Gringo guys haven't seen since their mothers wiped their noses and tied their shoes that probably has a lot to do with it So then you might ask our gringos easily fooled by Latin women charms the short answer. Yes Absolutely turns out by the time a gringos figured out he really hooked up with the wrong Latina He's almost always the last one to find out even though his friends and his friends wives and girlfriends knew it from the start And you know early on before you've figured out. It's bad news word will filter back to you, but you won't listen That said for all you single guys who keep sending me emails on the subject Here's a tip and a piece of advice a huge majority of gringo guys end up looking for love and romance in all the wrong places

[13:34] I know it's a cliche, but it's true They come down to gringo tourist areas and the first place they go is to the bars and discos and the first thing You know, they're talking to or buying drinks for a Latin girl who speaks some English Okay, now you got two strikes against you and yes, I've heard all the gringo excuses, but Johnny I don't know any Spanish when I get down here and you know It's just so hard to date a girl who speaks no English. We got nothing in common We can't get ten words between us before I'm banging away with Google Translate on my smartphone Did I say banging? Sorry about that Freud would be proud, huh? Where was I? Oh, yeah guys whose Spanish sucks who go out with girls whose English sucks are always saying Johnny

[14:19] You know, that's no way to have a date. That's no good for a relationship and my take Oh, I admit it's tough at first little do these guys know it's the best way in the world to learn Spanish Anyway, not to sound like the old man in the sea But remember when I came down here 26 years ago was it there was no Google Translate There was no Google and there was no internet So all of us gringos that came down didn't even have that advantage All we had was a dog-eared Spanish phrase book slash dictionary and even back then it still was true we all wanted to hook up with a Latin girl that spoke a little English and By the way finding a lady like that was very very difficult off the gringo tourist trail Which is why obviously so many gringos flocked down to Costa Rica and naturally the gringo latina

[15:07] mating dating Long-term romantic success statistics are not good So anyway as per another part of Frank's email Is it true that here in Latin America a lot of the courts are now being stacked with women judges? Well, yes, I know that's true That's just another proof of the lag time effect down here because remember in the States 15 even 20 years ago already Men were starting to complain that when they went to divorce court pendulum it swung and it was now all in the ladies favor and that extended to the 9-1-1 So-called spousal abuse calls even 15 or 20 years ago. All the woman had to say was is that a guy hitter? He'd be ejected from the scene with a restraining order and he'd have to go to counseling

[15:52] Well, you see because everything first-world and gringo does come to Latin America Suddenly there has been a spike in female family court judges the women it seems are getting their revenge Although still down here if a woman calls the domestic abuse hotline The cops may or may not show up on the scene could be four hours could be never. Nope. I'm not kidding Yeah, in fact, I just heard of a case where a lone lady jogger was attacked on a Monday while jogging down the road Luckily, she escaped and when she called 9-1-1 The cops told her to call back on Wednesday because the cop assigned to assault cases was on vacation till then oh and get this I know of another case of a Latin guy who lives in a small town way out in the boonies and his Daughter is kind of a rebel. She's 15 years old and sometimes she takes off for a day or two and doesn't come back

[16:41] Well this time she's been gone four days. Remember she's 15 now So he called the cops the cops said sure we'll send out a cruiser and you can ride around the neighborhood with us We'll look for please have $10 ready for gas. He said, okay, and they did show up That's how it is down here now in regards to the family court system when there is a court order against you For example, or you're required to appear in court on some charge whether you're a Latin or gringo They'll try to serve you as summons and believe me because addresses are so chaotic down here often Non-existent it's been estimated that about 50% of the time I summons never gets to a person who's supposed to appear now that in no way means if you get pulled over by the cops

[17:28] For example that they'll be able to pull that up that there's a warrant out or you didn't appear in court There's a huge lag time down here in the technology that allows a cop to run your plate your driver's license Or your passport just does not exist cops and cars do not have a main connection To the police computers to check out any outstanding warrants or violations Although lag time assures us it will be coming and it's starting in places like Costa Rica Panama Chile and parts of Argentina But it's very very spotty It'll be years maybe decades before it gets to the places off the gringo tourist trail. That's it Let me tell you another true story that can clarify some of this a story about a longtime expat gringo I've been down here maybe 20 years now named cliff now

[18:15] He came down here many years ago as a textile buyer Set up a little one-man office with a secretary in Panama City. Well, he knew virtually no Spanish So he first advertised for a bilingual secretary who ended up doing most of the work in the office So he had a lot of extra time on his hands now good old cliff came down here and did what most every gringo does Who's making a hell of a lot of money compared to the locals anyway? Now remember he's getting a first world salary something like 45,000 bucks a year and that was 20 years ago or so I know to first world people that doesn't sound like much. That's kind of lower middle class these days, isn't it? But remember he's getting that 45 grand a year completely tax-free Because he's got that foreign earned income tax exemption you get when you live outside the US for a year or more

[19:05] So he's single in Panama making just under 20 times as much as the average earner there Back then the average guy in Panama made about 2,500 bucks a year So from day one cliff is living like a king penthouse apartment jacuzzi Jim and pool in the building hanging at the beach every weekend and as gringos who know little Spanish tend to do he start Hanging around with other gringos So then where do you think they went almost every night after work to the casinos and nightclubs of course? That's what most all single gringos do who are on contract from a firm up in the States bringing down First world money every big city in Latin America has casinos Panama has a lot of them and they're open all night

[19:51] So if you walk into any of these casinos, there's large and small ones hole in the walls and elegant ones You'll see always a battery of gringos just like cliff And of course there are girls working at those casinos dealers cashiers waitresses, etc And they always hire the pretty ones, right? So then cliff started inviting some of these girls back to his penthouse apartment Sometimes five or ten of them at a time and of course they'd never been to an elegant first-class apartment before So he got into that all too familiar gringo Latina Partian scene that many many single guys who know no Spanish gets sucked into when they first get down and of course those English-speaking Latinas he and his crowd hung with just love being around gringos because well There was always a chance to hook up with one of those gringos permanently

[20:38] Which offered a permanent way out of middle and lower middle-class doldrums now remember the only reason the situation Came about was because these ladies speak English how'd that happen? Well since casinos have international clients they hire ladies who speak some English So as luck or bad luck would have it cliff fell in love or he thought he did with one of these young girls now I have to tell you at this time cliff was in his mid 40s coming off a very nasty divorce with 20-something kid in college in California and like he said the reason why he took the job down in Panama in the first place Was because he said he'd had enough Another case of the straw that broke the camel's back He said so he fell in love with a young beautiful Latina who spoke English and oops She got pregnant and cliff being a somewhat upright gringo did the right thing and when the kid was born

[21:27] He sighed the birth certificate as the father now cliff was thinking of marrying this girl, but he didn't yeah He supported her and the kid for about a year or so and by that time he'd learned enough Spanish to overhear a couple of Her friends talking about what a nice guy he was to support a kid that wasn't his and that was when the poop hit the ventilator He did a little investigating and found out She was actually what a lot of gringos call a part-time hooker in other words in the past She'd worked a day job or a night job and once or twice a week when she needed extra money She'd hit the streets so cliff wanted out and since he owned no property there He arranged it so his company would transfer him to Honduras Even though cliff was extremely pissed. He didn't leave her high and drive He left her a little money, but left no forwarding address now remember

[22:15] This is slightly before the internet landed in Latin America Meanwhile time rolls on in about 15 years have passed by hooking crookies back in Panama again This time working for another gringo company textile biz again So cliffs in Panama with a beautiful hunter and wife of about five years no no she wasn't five years old She was his wife of five years come on gringos are dumb, but they're not stupid So anyway him and his wife and his wife's kid that would be cliff's step kid living in an upscale neighborhood in Panama Suddenly a process server knocks on their door Cliff immediately calls his lawyer remember you need one of those from the very start and here's the perfect test case why you need To cultivate a long-term relationship with your lawyer turns out the part-time hooker from 15 years previous

[23:04] She'd taken that birth certificate to court. How'd she even know to do that well? Cliff with his gambling habit had hit the casinos again And a girl there recognized him and reported back to his old flame that he was in town so his ex went to court with that birth certificate with Cliff's name on it as the father and Requested the court and it was a female judge there too for 15 years of back child support and penalties Cliff's lawyer said you have to go to court you have to fight this Besides they've got an order out on you to appear so cliff went to court with his lawyer Cliff said the kids not mine they even proved it with a blood test however when the kid was born He signed the birth certificate as the father so legally

[23:50] It's his kid the female judge ordered 15 years back child support no alimony because they weren't married And that's when Cliff's gringo disadvantage kicked in she set Cliff's child support payment at 200 bucks a month Four times the going rate in Panama so with penalties the total came to around 50 grand His lawyer worked out a payment plan, but behind the scenes cliff was furious So before the first payment was even due cliff bought a one-way airline ticket through my jammy However when he arrived at the airport he found out when he went through immigration There was an embargo against his passport in other words He couldn't leave the country until the judgment was paid and that was when his good old Latin lawyer made a few phone calls He arranged for a private taxi to drive him to the extremely porous Costa Rican border. He walked into Costa Rica

[24:42] There was another taxi waiting on the other side, and now he's back in Honduras working for that US company again Oh, yeah, and he sent for his wife and step-kid. They weren't under an embargo. How could they be? They had nothing to do with the case so now you're probably thinking stupid stupid gringo, huh? I'm here to tell you I hear permutations on that kind of story all the time in fact all of us long-term Expat gringos have a few gringo friends who've had brushes with the law like that bottom line Don't go looking for love in all the wrong places and where are the wrong places bars discos casinos off or on the gringo tourist Trail internet chat rooms Latin dating services girls who speak too much English But you know you can tell green gringos about that stuff all day long And they're still not gonna listen as soon as they find a beautiful young caring Latina who speaks some English

[25:32] They're off to the races and in most cases. That's a race you can't win Oh, and by the way in almost all the cases where you see gringo expats get caught up in a bad way like cliff As in dating mating and eventually hating the trouble starts when one she gets pregnant without you two being married When the gringo that you puts property in her name boats cars businesses Whatever at her request or insistence especially if you guys are not married that should be a huge red flag Now let me ask you this. Why do you think they have essay corporations here in Latin America? Remember you and your lawyer can set one up and it can own your property your houses your cars your business Whatever and you can easily work it out with your lawyer in such a way that you are not actually on the books in

[26:24] The registry as the owner so if any person or business or entity wants to sue you even with alimony and child support judgments They cannot attach whatsoever in an essay corporation now cliff was lucky. He owned no property He just rented but being a stupid gringo I'm sure if he did own property or to probably been in his name Then the court would have attached that property if he skipped now when a bunch of us expat gringos get together We can't help but bring up stories like cliffs and many others So many of them idiot gringo lonely heart stories that go south and it's true It doesn't matter how learned it you are how clever or brilliant when it comes to mating and dating and romance It's just a flip of a coin in fact It's all over the net lately that there's one high-profile guy with an absolutely miserable romantic track record his name

[27:14] Elon Musk, but you know you gringo gonna bees and wannabes you're hearing all this right now But chances are it won't help now as far as first-world gringas coming down here and hooking up with land guys Well, that's a real minefield too. But in other ways we'll be all over that one next time. So stay tuned You've been listening to the expat files living in Latin America coming to you twice a week from somewhere south of the border Email me the expat files at gmail.com and don't forget to check out expat wisdom calm to sign up for your free Reports on Latin America. See you next time nos vemos