#618 – Drug Legalization, Police Encounters, and Cultural Insights in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now I wonder Hello there all you expat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started Hey, you know I get a lot of emails from people asking me about drugs the use of drugs the cost of drugs I'm talking what you might call illegal or illegal drugs in some countries and not others. Of course depends on legislation There's a lot of changes going on now, you know that anyway people want to know if you can easily get the stuff

[00:50] What happens when you get caught? Is it possible to even get picked up and if and when what happens? And well, you could say I get emails about this and that and every other thing concerning drugs of all kinds including Prescription drugs and I get questions from people saying what about the drug war in Latin America? And now that so many US states are legalizing this stuff for personal use, etc Even decriminalizing it completely in some cases. What then is the word down here on that? What's the rumor? In the narco crowd. Well, you know up in the states. It's a pretty hot topic What's it now? Maybe 10 states have decriminalized it and I'm sure it's soon enough the whole USA and Canada will be heading down that track And by the way to me, that's one of the only positive signs that's coming out of the first world lately

[01:37] That said I have to tell you a few years back before Colorado or any of the states legalized marijuana and stuff I'd get quite a few emails and I did some telephone consults with people who left the US to go to Uruguay Because they thought since Uruguay was the first country in the world to legalize marijuana and marijuana cultivation That might be a very good business to get in for export Nope, not necessarily illegal export to countries where it was illegal But because of the growing beliefs and scientific verification that hemp oil Was a terrific medicinal product and pretty much legal throughout the world when used that way Someone had to supply this stuff legally, right? So why not set up shop in Uruguay? So yes I do know a handful of first-world people who did go down to Uruguay right after they passed those legalization laws

[02:26] And I know of a particular couple actually bought or lease some land and are now growing rather large quantities of marijuana legally Which now in hindsight looks like a mistake though For sure it was not a mistake at all for them to get up and vote with their feet Meaning sit back and watch things collapse in the first world from a distance That was a very smart move but to move down to Uruguay just because the marijuana business seemed like a great opportunity While it's hard to see now that there are any advantages, but who knows, huh? Anyway, yes It's true. The narcos here in Latin America are afraid of what's happening up north and are changing their game plan Which is why so many of those forward-thinking narcos are moving their cash production and crops Into the heroin and coke business though to tell you the truth. I think coca-cola is just as addicting

[03:17] Hey, I had a very good friend in engineering school who drank a six pack a day And now he's got the bleeding ulcers and kidney stones to prove it So anyway as the narcos here in Latin America are running scared about the legalization laws in the states Which is a good thing, right? And as they switch to the heavier stuff like coke and heroin It seems quite obvious to everyone down here that the narco wars are gonna heat up a bit and then Pretty much collapse as the market collapses on them because you know statistics say that the cocaine business is not growing at all Though the heroin business is by the way 60% of the illegal drug business That is drugs making their way into the US come in the form of marijuana and marijuana products So that's where the lion's share of the profits are or where a matter of fact

[04:02] Not too many people know this but some of the best pot in the world is grown in Canada Weigh it out in the boonies in buried Shipping containers hydroponically Well with all the legalization there goes that business too because where do you think they were shipping it mostly to the states? Of course, by the way as for the marijuana laws down here in Latin America sure every country But Uruguay there are laws against possession though some Latin American countries have vastly decriminalized it But the truth of the matter is if you get picked up with this stuff Let's say you get pulled over at a routine traffic roadblock and the car just reeks of marijuana smoke or even if it doesn't and they Ask you if they could search your car, you know They'll do that sometimes and they'll do a very very cursory inspection open the glove compartment

[04:47] Maybe look under the seat quickly or they'll check your trunk By the way when that's happened to me and it hasn't for a couple of years now Anyway, I always say go ahead be my guest have a look now. It's true You don't have to let them do that You have your rights and you have a right to ask for a search warrant in that case you call your lawyer better have one Tell them what you've just done and hand the phone over to the cops, but I highly recommend against that Just let them look in your car. Just say be my guest and hand him a bag of Cheetos and some coke Nope, not a bag of coke. That would be a very bad idea I'm talking coca-cola by the way, you longtime listeners No I always recommend carrying a bit of junk food in the back of your car for just that odd Situation where you get pulled over by a cop at one of those routine stops Not that that's gonna happen to you on a regular basis last time

[05:35] I got pulled over was over a year ago It could happen But if you live in the city you get to know where they put those roadblocks Usually they're always in the same place and everyone knows where they are So you can't avoid them if that's your intention A lot of people work around it if they can because you know, even though they're not doing anything wrong when you get pulled over There's a good 20 minutes or a half an hour wasted dealing with the cops Especially if you're off the tourist trail, then they see you're a gringo and they rarely get to see gringo So they're gonna be wanting to shoot the breeze with you for a little while about how they like the Yankees or Mike Tyson Or cousin Julio in Minnesota So anyway, when you do get pulled over and if you're down here long enough, it's gonna happen You'd be surprised how friendly they get when you give them a little treat like that right off the bat then chances Are they'll just stick their head in the window and that'll be it

[06:22] That's of course you are carrying a load of drugs or a big sack of cash or a trunk full of RPGs But as low-key gringos with a small footprint, hopefully you'll not be messing around with any of that stuff Oh, by the way, if you have some booze in the car even open booze in the car Normally that means nothing to a cop because they probably have open booze in their car, too Funny how Latin countries have most all the first world laws, but they only enforce about 20% of them Why because the cops don't even know their own laws Then again do cops up in the states Hmm. So anyway, I hear occasional stories of people who get stopped by the cops sometimes for example Walking out of a disco late at night. There'll be some cops there not really to shake down anybody

[07:08] But they sometimes rigidly control the closing hour of a bar Especially in the disco districts because you see there's big money in finding a bar for staying open after hours Now I can tell you from personal experience walking out of a disco one night in a big latin city around 1 30 at night Bar closed at one and the cops were posted right outside waiting to see if any drinks were being sold past the appointed hour of one and in the meantime Occasionally they stop someone walking out ask him to empty his pockets and stuff Now normally that might happen to a local latin guy who looks a little drunk or who's acting a little funny But gringos are pretty much spared that especially when you pull the no hablo espanol thing

[07:54] In fact some time ago. I watched a guy get frisked and he had a couple of joints in his pocket And in front of all the bystanders, they just took the stuff and let the guy mosey on along That seems to be pretty much the case throughout latin america If you just have a couple of joints or under an ounce on you They just take it or even let you keep it sometime have a few gringo and european friends that's happened, too However, i've talked this over with a couple of latin cops And pretty much all of them have told me if you've got much more than an ounce on you They'll probably take you down and book you It'll cost you nice fine and stuff a nice fine in latin terms, maybe 100 bucks and they won't give it back So pretty much the unwritten law is you can have a little bit for personal use, but don't push it By the way in my over 25 years down here. I've been in and out of most all latin countries

[08:42] I've been mingling with the medium and high and low classes and guess what? I almost never see anybody smoking any pot. I almost never see anyone doing any coke either. However On the college campuses It's different because you know They all want to be gringo like and the fat is to do ecstasy and designer drugs and pot and coke and all that And college campuses. In fact, there were some expat gringos who are into that stuff go to score their pot and coke Now i'm talking about mostly when you're off the gringo tourist trail when you're on the gringo tourist trail You'll get the odd latin guy walking up to you Giving you that look saying hey You need something that includes if you're sitting on the beach in belize roatan or any other place. There are gringos moseying around

[09:29] Especially on a beach sit there long enough and some rasta guy with a cooler full of ice cream or beers Whatever is bound to walk up to give you that look along with trying to sell you a beer or an ice cream They'll give some kind of casual line offering things that are generally considered illegal However, if you're at a beach spot way off the gringo tourist trail, that stuff just doesn't happen At least it has to mean so the more gringo is an area the more you're going to get people trying to sell you drugs You know when us expats get together and we talk about drugs on the local scene and such the fact that drugs are so Ridiculously inexpensive here in latin america. We just can't believe more people aren't doing this stuff I mean, that's the logic they use up in the states all the time, right? You legalize it more people are going to use it

[10:15] Well, you don't see that here. I mean look an ounce of pot. I believe is going for now something like 10 or 20 bucks Probably 10 times that up in the states. I wouldn't know Same with cocaine and being that it's so cheaper You think there to be more people on it or under the influence and you'd spot them here and there But you just don't well, maybe you do if you hang out in the right places But I guess i'm not hanging out there But oddly enough even in the real crappy ghetto areas of the big city The drugs of choice there seem to be beer and cheap rat gut booze You know the drink of choice for died in the wool alky's Now you've got a certain segment a very young segment of society in the ghetto that are glue sniffers They even have a name for them

[11:01] They're called pegamenteros the root word being pegamento, which means glue in spanish And even if you are driving through a poor washed out neighborhood, you will rarely see those guys But when you do you'll see the paper bags and the raggedy clothes and the greasy hair Same thing in ghettos up in the states, huh? Guess that's a worldwide phenomena in all big cities But you know as far as heroin heroinetics and needle users and such I've yet to see any of that or any reports on the news or in the papers too Again, it's got to be because of the price of heroin and the price of needles Sure, like I said, it's probably a tenth of the price you get it up in the states But still it's just not affordable nor is it a fad here. What's it? They say liquor is quicker Again, you rarely see it down here except for a small percentage of the entitled kids of the rich

[11:50] They're just copying what a certain percentage of college kids up in the states do Yep, there are entitled rich kids down here. Not a lot of them, but they get bored too And what do you think they do for kicks take out daddy's range rover and score? Well, whatever but I can't overemphasize the fact that drug use is not an epidemic here nowhere near it But I can tell you this booze insurance and in the ghetto, man They've got some heavy boozers But then they've got drunks down here in all levels of society though the higher the social status the better quality of the booze by the way throughout latin america the booze of choice by far is johnny walker johnny walker black if you can afford it in fact, johnny walker as a brand outsells any other brand of liquor with the middle and upper classes that is

[12:39] Five to one and believe me if you're gonna have a party quinceaños wedding, whatever They'll generally have little bottles of johnny walker black on every table could be red too Because dad or grandpa or whatever patriarch is throwing the party will insist by the way I've been to parties where of course They had the obligatory johnny walker black on every table where the family did not even own a car That's how poor they were but old johnny walker showed up. All right, go figure, huh? And I understand now when people have those quinceaños parties and weddings the parents will go deep Into hot paying for those things and pay for years on end And of course, they have no credit to get loans from the bank. So they'll hit up the loan sharks

[13:27] Every middle and lower class neighborhood has them, you know at ridiculous loan shark rates, too And I even know of cases of dads and moms selling off stuff to pay for the quinceaños party or wedding reception In fact just recently I heard of a case of a guy selling off his crummy van The only transportation the family had to pay for the daughter's wedding now They're back once again to taking the chicken bus talk about taking a big step backwards Hope it was worth it But you know weddings and quinceaños parties are all for the show It's all about keeping up with the jones's or I should say martinez's Now we couldn't have a decent discussion about drugs in latin america without talking about ergoi By the way, it's not a country. I particularly recommend I have mentioned it quite a bit in past shows. So do check the archives

[14:14] But in short for a very small country, it's got about the biggest government bureaucracy you've ever seen And it seems like everyone wants a job in government because it pays twice as much as the private sector sound familiar Anyway, people are wondering how that legalized marijuana experiment throughout the whole country is going Because you know, it is the first of its kind in the world Today we have a boots on the ground report of what exactly has happened in the past three and a half years now Since that experiment first got underway So what's it really like living in ergoi now? Here's the latest boots on the ground news I want to thank longtime listener alan for sending this johnny in december 2013 the ergoian chamber of senators approved law

[15:00] 19.172 through which the ergoian general assembly regulated the production marketing and possession of marijuana throughout the country According to the scientific advisory committee for monitoring and evaluating the control of marijuana in ergoi It decriminalizes users of recreational cannabis and helps concentrate the country's institutional efforts in promoting drug prevention programs So they say creating he says at least three brand new expensive giant bureaucracies The revenue is supposedly applying treatments for affected users and at the same time fighting drug traffickers Yes, those were the official goals So now three years after the creation of this law, let's look at what it's really doing

[15:47] Now a lot of people asked why did ergoi go first? Though a lot of other countries were considering it ergoi was the first to jump in Well, despite its small population of around 3.3 million ergoi has been a pioneer in latin america In promoting certain laws that have allowed citizens to exercise individual liberties Even though many experts see ergoi as the second most socialist south american country behind venezuela for example in 1907 legislators enacted a law 3245 which legalized divorce Even though that bold move took a lot of flack from the catholic church Then he says in 1913 ergoi legalized unilateral divorce for women Countries like columbia didn't even legalize divorce for men until 1972

[16:36] and chile in 2004 And yes, chile is supposed to be the prime example of a first world style latin country, right? Then alan says ergoi approved woman's suffrage the right to vote in 1927 It was the very first country in south america to do that It decriminalized abortion in 1933 Though in 1936 it was banned again It's still banned in most latin countries by the way And then ergoi in 2007 was also the first latin country to legalize unions between same-sex couples And two years later the ergoi and general assembly allowed adoption for same-sex couples Finally it approved marriage between same-sex couples in 2010 So as you can see ergoi has been way ahead of all other latin countries in human rights issues like that

[17:27] Whether you agree with them or not Now in 1998 it was a law called 17.016 That established a legal minimum dose of marijuana in ergoi Partially decriminalizing its consumption in 2012 the government of jose mujeca Proposed the new law to regulate production and use of cannabis Now the proposed law before 2013 was to change the country's anti-drug policy For the promoters of the law it was more important to fight against drug trafficking than against consumers who used it Recreationally so then in 2013 finally after the approval of both houses of the general assembly The government regulated the consumption production and use of marijuana Now the content of this legislation people outside of ergoi don't know very well

[18:19] It goes like this ergoi's legislation allows ergoin citizens and residents to acquire cannabis for recreational purposes by three means self-supply membership clubs and direct purchases at designated pharmacies by september 2016 the country had implemented the registration of citizens interested in self-sufficiency And membership clubs the thing is local pharmacies have not started selling marijuana yet however, there is now a registration list of citizens who use it legally Hmm. The thing is if you want to use it legally you have to get on the government list So, how would you feel about that? Now this law? 19.172 also regulates the production of non-recreational marijuana in the country

[19:08] including medicinal use and industrial use of hemp Now something people don't know ergoin authorities are looking to attract investment from pharmaceutical companies interested in research about the possible medicinal uses of cannabis and industrial uses in fact Public universities are even offering courses in it and now for the first time Cannabis hemp can be used legally for the production of oils textiles perfumes plastics paper products and biofuels Now many people don't know that hemp products were used up through World War two in the United States and have properties that make them preferred for many uses including during World War one and two the US Navy in fact during World War two my own grandfather sold most of his

[19:54] Crop as hemp to the US Navy until marijuana and marijuana products were outlawed in the mid 1950s So then what about grow in your own? well for domestic cultivation the law states that Uruguayan citizens and Residents may now grow cannabis for self-supply Meaning if you're coming down to Uruguay from another country you have to apply for residency or your use of marijuana in the country is illegal So as it turns out Citizens or legal residents who have domestic crops can cultivate six plants and up to 480 grams per year a little over a pound So then who's checking well virtually nobody, but you are on that list remember now those interested in marijuana cultivation for

[20:39] Self-sufficiency must register at the Institute of Regulation and in control of cannabis IRCC a it's called another wing of that large new bureaucracy There are two requirements for registration you first must submit in full the certificate of Uruguayan identity and proof of residence So if you don't have permanent or temporary residency is still illegal for you to possess or grow your own marijuana But then again who's checking and this I'm sure you didn't know by September 2016 that division the IRCC a had approved 5,214 Applications for domestic cultivation that would mean five thousand two hundred fourteen people wanted to grow their own legally So marijuana cultivation in Uruguay without registration is illegal and unreported plants must be destroyed

[21:33] But then again who's checking? If you recall the law also allows for creation of marijuana membership clubs These clubs are allowed to possess up to 99 Cannabis plants at one time in their organization a membership club must be composed of 15 to 45 members The legal requirements to create a club are much much more complicated than for self cultivation and self-use Again, you must register with the government, but there is no cost now until the end of September 2016 The IRCC a that's the government organization that regulates this has approved 20 clubs the cost of entering a cannabis club ranges between $20 and $1,800 per month and your club is the one that sets the dues etc

[22:24] By the way, remember I mentioned pharmacies are supposed to be able to sell you marijuana Well, Uruguayan pharmacies are not yet selling cannabis for recreational use Any legally established pharmacy may apply for that registration and license, but it hasn't happened yet According to official sources about 50 pharmacists have signed up to sell However leaders of the new marijuana trade associations assert that only 10 pharmacies are actually Willing to sell the plant in the country due to the voluminous government regulations and paperwork Hmm typical, huh? However, the government says it expects at least a hundred pharmacies of the 19 provincial capitals and cities with more than 10,000 inhabitants To sign up and sell marijuana soon enough

[23:12] Whatever that means Still pharmacies are gun-shy to jump in bed with the government and how about this for big brother? The acquirers that would be the purchasers like you and me must report to the authorities our intention to buy cannabis Our buyers data will then be available free to government institutions specifically three of them the IRCCA That's the government marijuana Control board number two the drug board and number three get this the Uruguayan judiciary hmm now adult Uruguayans and residents may buy 10 grams per week or 40 grams per month from pharmacies at least that's what the law says right now Though like I said, there are no pharmacies signed up. That's not all each pharmacy must have a special fingerprint reader

[24:03] Linked to a government database Wait, wait just a second here. What if insurance companies get a hold of that information? I wonder would that mean you pay a higher premium on your car and health insurance or maybe not be able to get insurance at all who knows Anyway of the 22 companies that were interested in cultivating the cannabis that will be sold there only two were selected These two companies that are to supply the pharmacies are now slated to produce 4,000 kilos a year Each pharmacy will be allowed to have a reserve of just two kilos Moreover, the state will regulate the prices of cannabis aiming to combat any Illegalities that enter the market and you know, the government has actually set a price

[24:49] Companies selected to cultivate and produce the plant will be selling the grams at 90 cents That's 90 cents a gram and with 28 grams to the ounce. That means around 25 bucks an ounce Pharmacies will be able to earn up to 30% on the sale of the product as their markup So the government said sales and pharmacies would begin in July of 2016 and it didn't happen It's not even close to happening. So why the delay well, listen to this the causes of the delays have been pinpointed to a strike at the Uruguayan post office government employees are on strike and Given that customers must register at post offices if they want to be buyers Things have been delayed for months. However, the leaders of the pharmaceutical associations

[25:37] That is the private drug stores say the reason behind the delay is that the state setting the control of prices Prevents the product from being sufficiently profitable in effect. They don't want to sell it not for the government price So there you have it Johnny Good intentions and when a government gets involved, it's all screwed up However, one of the main achievements of the law is that at least 5,000 Uruguayans can now domestically cultivate their own pot And they won't be buying it from drug traffickers anymore Yeah, as if the casual user ever really bought it you could grow it down here Everyone did and then ellen finishes up by saying as a final note It's been estimated that with this new marijuana government bureaucracy up to

[26:24] 5,000 new government jobs will be created. How about that? So johnny if you think about the secondary effects that means For those 5,000 people that are now growing it for themselves. The government has hired one full-time employee Quite a trade-off, huh? So yes in the midst of a worldwide economic downturn There is still massive growth in the Uruguayan government sector as usual So anyway, johnny when first world people say isn't it great? Those Uruguayans are way ahead of the curve in human rights and freedom They ought to get some boots on the ground down here and see what it's really like Never never forget that old saying be careful what you wish for All right. We're at the end of the show now I just want to mention that for those of you who tried to get on my january 2017 expat insider seminar

[27:12] But just couldn't make it go to www.expatplanb.com And get my complete program that shows you exactly how to get started on your plan b from the comfort of your own home Yep, it's absolutely the next best thing to coming down and getting boots on the ground yourself. Do check it out expatplanb.com south of the border This is the expat files living in latin america If you want me to help you out with your own plan b just schedule a one-on-one consult Send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to learn how to move forward with your own plan b from right up there in the states Go to www.expatplanb.com and check out my three videos. See ya nos vemos