#672 – The Expat Files: Legal Status, Dual Citizenship, and Cultural Insights

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now I wonder Hello there all you expat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started All right. Let's polish off some email questions first. This is from Elena in Spanish. They say Elena She says when a pregunta sin piedras that means that she's gonna ask me a question and not throw rocks at me this time Why she say that well not so long ago if you remember she's the one that did write an email and threw a few rocks at me

[00:50] Anyway, she says saludos Johnny. You have suggested that your gringos eventually obtain citizenship in whatever country they have chosen Indeed there are advantages, but is it legal to have dual citizenship? I know many people who say they have dual citizenship Is it a matter of not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Do you know people who have had problems by having dual citizenship? I mean if a Mexican American for example travels to Mexico with a Mexican passport and returns with an American passport To the USA. Could it not be a problem that his or her passport is not noted with his or her entrance into Mexico I say Mexico, but it could apply to almost any country and then she pauses and starts a new paragraph and says oh No, Puedo resist here, which means I can't resist a key balla piedra

[01:39] Here comes the stone that she's gonna throw. All right. She says Johnny gringos have no right complaining about undocumented aliens in the US She means of course illegal aliens who have committed a crime just by going into the United States because it is a crime You know, that's a good way to start off your relationship with a new country, huh? Just want to straighten that out I'm never gonna let anyone get away with saying Undocumented aliens. It's always Illegal aliens. Let's stick to the facts now We might even go so far as to say criminal illegal aliens just by the fact that they're in the US illegally They've committed a crime, but we'll be nice Let's not quibble after all you remember that book written by I think it was a California state judge called three felonies a day Meaning in the eyes of the incomprehensible US legal system were all criminals

[02:27] Anyway, then Elena says in her email There are thousands of gringo illegal aliens in Iraq and other countries and no one seems to have invited them Hmm Elena Johnny here again So Elena you're saying gringos can be illegal aliens in Iraq and other places yet You always refer to illegal Mexicans as undocumented persons. Don't quite get that Then she could includes the email saying ciao Johnny Elena All right, since she promised not to throw a rock but she did anyway Allow me to hit that rock back into her court. You ready Elena? Here goes. Yes. She's right There are lots of illegal gringos in Iraq and other countries But number one, they all came in legally at first, you know They had legal visas and some then overstayed but surely a tiny percentage less than maybe one in a thousand

[03:19] But still the ones that did are technically illegal aliens, right? I'll go with that But there's another very important thing or two or three you have to remember first of all gringos Almost always have something very positive to offer when they move to another country They have much higher levels of education than the local population They have dough or they want to be able to qualify for the visa in the first place. They have initiative They start businesses and hire locals They bring first-world middle-class values higher standards and much higher levels of cleanliness order hygiene and sanitation As compared to let's just use those two places Elena mentioned Mexico and Iraq now If you think I'm being a jerk, this is hyperbole and I'm blowing things out of proportion You ought to just fly into Mexico City or Iraq hail a taxi and ask him to take you on a tour of a middle-class neighborhood

[04:08] You'll see in an instant that it's on par with trailer trash or low-income public housing up in the states And those are exactly the norms values and customs that uneducated or undereducated latins bring to the states with them So again gringos land in foreign countries legally with proper visas And of course if they overstay their visas, they are illegal Certainly none of us wants to be in that position and when we're in it We feel awful uncomfortable about it till we straighten it out and pay the fine or whatever So yes, there are certain gringos, especially low-budget backpacker types trekking through jungles in the mountainside They lose track of time or are having such a good time that they overstay their visas by a day a week Even sometimes a couple months. Sure. There's some of that but no one sets out to do that intentionally

[04:56] That's another thing Gringos is especially older adult gringos were brought up by this strict rule of law That means obeying zoning rules traffic laws paying taxes, etc And unlike most of the latin population gringos Unless they were on the lam from the law wouldn't think of moving to another country with the intent of letting their visa run out And remaining there indefinitely as an illegal In fact, I'd say for ninety nine point ninety nine percent of all the gringos I've ever met that would be an unthinkable proposition So in my 27 years down here I've met thousands of gringos and I think I've met four maybe five who I know are Illegal aliens in their chosen latin country and they seem to have followed the same path Mostly gentrified hippies who kind of dropped out came through legally many years ago on a tourist visa liked it so much

[05:44] They never left got married to a local gone native let their paperwork slide some for years and years And you know, they could straighten it all out with a lawyer a little money and running around to a lot of different government departments But they really don't seem to want to no one from the government bugs them They don't advertise it of course and they're pretty much confined to living out their lives in a small town in the boonies Even so that seemed is totally all right with them In fact, they all seem genuinely happy the problem of course is that they can't travel outside their chosen latin countries borders That would be difficult without the proper up-to-date visas, but not impossible. This is Latin America You know, by the way about a month ago I was going through a scruffy latin land border and I watched as a backpack and gringo in front of me

[06:30] Was having an argument with the immigration guy seems his paperwork wasn't right Yep, he overstayed his visa by quite a few months turns out the immigration guy told him He'd have to go back to Minagua to get another passport stamp meanwhile, they had a quiet little discussion and I watched as the immigration guy passed the backpacker a little piece of paper it said $100 on it That was his way of telling the backpacker guy that he didn't have to go to Minagua at all He just needed to pay him a hundred bucks and he could go right through Well, the backpacker ponied up because that little mission back to Minagua would have surely taken him two or more days because he'd have to Stand in government lines too and Minagua was at least 150 miles away. Welcome to Latin America, huh? Yet, I think the guy could have worked him down to 50 maybe even 25 bucks had he known some Spanish

[07:20] So yes, there's a tiny tiny fraction of gringos who are illegal aliens in Latin America There are no burden at all on the Latin country they're in They're not sucking off the welfare system or the safety net because that kind of stuff doesn't exist here in Latin America By the way As mentioned in past shows if you overstay your visa you charge a dollar or two a day and Latin officials are ever so glad To accept that payment with a smile and no matter how many times that happens once you pay that fine You're back in the good graces of your Latin country. Oh, and here's something I'm sure you didn't know if you're crossing the land border and overstayed your visa and have to pay that fine You can actually negotiate with them. Suppose. It's 50 bucks. You can say well, I'll give you 20 and they'll say 25 and there you are But that won't happen if you're flying out from an international airport because things are computerized and they've got their set rates

[08:09] Yes, it's happened to me. I've been in the legal alien a couple of times Bottom line whether you're in a Latin country legally or I've overstayed your visa a bit You have positive value and you're an asset to that third world country By the way, it breaks down that the average gringo tourist or gringo living in Latin America has a bachelor's degree from a u.s University now, let's contrast that to an illegal Latin coming into the states on average. They're broke have no safety net They have a sixth or eighth grade education They're more than happy to work a grunt job for cash doing drywall gardening or even a maid For them the whole idea is to blend in not get caught get a job and send part of that money home Each month to their Latin families, so let me ask you this how many gringos and expats living in Latin America are working a job

[08:59] And sending that money back to the folks in Montreal Tucson in Cleveland now It's a fact, you know that remisses only go from north to south never from south to north I found that out when I wanted to send some money to my brother up in the states Western Union from down here in Latin America and I wanted to do it anonymously like Latin's up in the states do and they Send remisses back home because you know, no one wants to put their real name and address on a remissa That's a record and it leaves trails and someday if the US ever tightened up they could then find out who the illegals are, right? Hey now, isn't that a good idea? What if US immigration service ice posted a man at every Western Union and money-gram office up in the states boy Wouldn't that kill the remiss of business in a hurry? But nope, that's too logical beyond the capacity of those brain-dead slugs in Washington

[09:47] So anyway, I didn't want a wire transfer 145 bucks to my brother in Chicago because the wire transfer fee is like 30 to 50 bucks That'd be stupid and if you send a check it takes a month to clear So I went to a Western Union window in a big city in Latin America, man They're everywhere Western Union is very smart They've negotiated with a lot of small businesses to have a window right in a drug store hardware store Whatever so I went up to one of those windows situated in a supermarket I said to the lady. I'd like to send 145 bucks to my brother in Chicago. She looked at me like I was nuts She said you want to send money to Los Estados the states never done that before She said it doesn't work that way money grams come from the states to Latin America Then I said what about the main office which wasn't so far away. She said maybe I went there same thing

[10:39] They said it was a one-way cash flow from up north to Latin America So how do you explain that fact? I was reading just the other day in Mexico alone Fully a quarter of the country's entire GDP is floated by remisses coming from the states yet They won't let me send 140 bucks than the other direction Oh, and by the way, the money gram remissa business is so huge now that Walmart has gotten into the egg Yeah Now you can go to a Walmart and up in the states and sending remisses to any Walmart in the chain in Latin America You know, they've got over 3,000 Walmart's down here, which makes it Latin America's biggest legit employer Just go on the Walmart website. You'll see they have a money transfer service and you can transfer get this now up to

[11:24] $2,999 online or in person every 30 calendar days And it really looks to have been set up in such a way to collect remisses from illegal aliens in the states I know some of you are thinking Johnny. How can you say that? How can you jump to such conclusions? Well, listen to this in the frequently answered questions section, by the way, you can get it in Spanish or English It says what payment methods can I use when sending money at a Walmart or money gram agent location? Answer in most cases cash is the only form of payment accepted and to make it even easier For illegal to send money It says if your receiver of the money does not have a valid photo ID Then you can go to a Walmart or money gram agent location to send them money In other words, it's inviting people who don't have a legitimate or valid photo ID

[12:14] To come and pick up their money. Anyway, it's as easy as that you send cash in the states The receiver in latin america gets cash. No IDs required Now, you know up in the states banks and businesses are very much discouraging the use of cash But not western union walmart and money gram They transfer tens of millions of dollars in cash from the states to latin america every week Now if you and I wanted to transfer cash money around up in the states, have you tried that lately? Yep, you're instantly under suspicion and it's 20 question time. Man. Am I glad I voted with my feet But I digress as usual Anyway, if there's one thing us gringos and expats can feel very good about is that we always seem to bring higher Standards and improve the living conditions for people around us here in the third world

[13:01] Unfortunately, it's just the opposite when third world people move to the first world It's all about people bringing their habits and their cultures with them and why do Undereducated third world people want to move to the states because they want what the first world offers as they believe it to be From watching our movies and programs on cable tv Which is why latins think we're nuts for wanting to come down to a place that they're dying to leave And you know, it's impossible to explain to a latin person that the united states is not what it was It's not the place we grew up in So who to blame big brother high taxes corrupt politicians big pharma the military industrial complex Well all of that of course the estimated 30 to 40 million illegal aliens Now if you think i'm stretching the point about the illegal alien bit

[13:47] Take a little trip to the latin mecca my jammy where there are whole subdivisions neighborhoods and districts Where if you only speak english, you won't even be able to order dinner Talk about strangers in a strange land and how about that latin american baby boom? One thing you'll notice if you're down here in latin america for any length of time and you're off the gringo tourist trail You'll see many many very young girls holding little babies Those would be the mothers of those little babies not the sisters or aunts Nope, it's not unusual for 17 16 14 even 12 year old girls to have babies here in latin america You know how it is up in the states if there's a 12 or 13 or 14 year old girl having a baby You just might see an exposé in the papers or on the six o'clock news But not down here in latin america though. It is true the more educated the society

[14:34] The smaller the family and the older the mother is when she first starts having kids Down here. There are multiple clauses for teenage and sub teenage pregnancies Not the least of which is that scientists have now proven that the latin male population has a much higher level of testosterone Than similar aged males up in the first world sometimes Double and it's not that these guys produce more testosterone naturally. It's that up in the first world all the junk food additives Pesticides plastics and many of the containers in contact with food happen to be estrogen analogues So in young american males, there's a shortage of testosterone and in excess of female hormone analogues Which can only mean very good news for the opera crowd And talking about how people who move to other countries bring their cultures and habits with them. Listen to this

[15:25] Did you know that 19 of the 32 mexican states, you know mexico has 32 states The age of sexual consent for women is 12 years old That means in those 19 states if a girl's 12 years old or above and gets pregnant It's not a crime for the male perpetrator as long as she consented So you have latins crossing the border that states with that kind of culture following age-old norms and traditions from the homeland Now according to a united nations map of the age of consent and no less a source than unicef It says the only other non-muslim countries that have an age of consent at 12 are angola Mexico Philippines and Zimbabwe now for any of you listeners out there who think this is hyperbole

[16:13] Listen to this says article 261 of the mexican federal criminal code stipulates and i'll translate this here That a sex act not limited to intercourse with someone as young as 12 is legal on the federal level as long as the young person Usually the girl understands the meaning of the act and isn't forced into it So yes, the federal age of consent in 19 of the 32 states in mexico is 12 years old I like how they mention the muslim country thing, you know mohaban himself If you've read the koran we'll see that he took a bride when she was six years old Though he didn't actually consummate the relationship with her till she was nine a gentleman elite thing of him to do, right? Go ahead. Look it up. Tell me i'm wrong. So is johnny muslim bashing here?

[17:02] Well, there's some of that stuff in the old testament too. So i'm an equal opportunity religion basher I know this shows about latin america, but I do get emails saying johnny. What's the muslim situation like in latin america? Should we be worried? Now you've heard me mention in a past show that the entire country of guadamala, which includes the larger city in central america Has only two mosques and in my home state, illinois, which has a similar population. There are over a hundred mosques And get this it'll seem unbelievable, but it's true. There are over 450 000 muslims in illinois So how many muslims in guadamala with a similar population only an estimated? 1200 so what's that mean? Well for every muslim in guadamala There are 400 in illinois

[17:49] Does that give you an idea of what the muslim situation is like down here? At least in central america and you know, i've had people ask me especially lately What do the regular latin people think of the muslims? Well, I can tell you i've asked a lot of latin people that question and they all to a person say they have pretty much a Genuine dislike or at least a distrust of muslim people Mostly based on the fact that 98 percent of latin america is heavily christian in fact not so long ago at a party I was talking to a rather intelligent latin sociology professor who teaches at one of the big universities down here Yep, a sociology major with a job who'd have thunk and he told me straight out that the muslim culture is Incompatible with the latin culture and he said if one of his daughters brought a muslim guy home. Well

[18:35] That just wouldn't happen. He said he said latins and muslims will never mix and it's easy to prove Look at the news every night practically. Look at all the terrorist acts going around in the world It's always a muslim strapping explosives to his back killing christians in the name of ala Isn't it funny? He said that you never see catholics or christians strapping bombs to their backs and killing muslims in the name of jesus So what about all those muslim and latin immigration problems? You know, it's all about assimilation You hear that argument all the time from righteous do-gooders up in the states Well, we're all immigrants, right? But here's the difference when my parents or grandparents came over from germany Sure, their first language was german, but they told their kids they will grow up as americans We will speak no german in the house That was the idea with all the western european immigration movements to the states

[19:24] Look, my parents and grandparents did not have german flags around the house They didn't celebrate the kaiser's birthday or any german events or holidays at all In fact, I haven't the faintest idea of any single german holiday at all Yeah, you know down here in latin america. You see on the nightly news all the time Some latin on the street reporter up in my jammy interviewing throngs of people from salvador honduras nikaragu wherever They're out on the streets in their latin barrios up in the states partying and wearing t-shirts and waving flags from the latin homeland Singing their latin country's national anthem because it's nikaraguas Or peruse independence day or some national holiday back home simon bolivar or jose marty's birthday, whatever So, isn't it funny that highly educated latins that move to the states, you know professionals and such who've arrived with valid visas

[20:16] Totally legal. They're not the ones taking the day off on cinco de mayo sitting in the front yard eating Salchiches and chicharrones waving flags and yelling viva mexico Nope educated latins do their best to assimilate sure They have a feeling for the old homeland Just like people with italian blood have a feeling for mother italy bottom line the more educated the more assimilated Oh, and I almost forgot in the interest of full disclosure Canada's age of consent is 15 and in the u.s It's from 16 to 18 depending on the state which brings us full circle to elena's comments about dual citizenship She says indeed there are advantages to having dual citizenship, but is it legal? Well, it's like this the united states does allow dual citizenship and some latin american countries allow dual citizenship, too

[21:07] However, some do not But let me assure you it's only a technicality Say what only a technicality. Well, here's how that works Suppose you set up your homestead in a latin american country that does not allow dual citizenship So you had your temporary then permanent residency and after five years you decide to go for your nationality and passport So you're thinking if you're gonna do that you have to renounce your american citizenship and passport, right? Well kind of but it's unofficial and non-binding the day you go to court in your latin country and take the oath of allegiance You'll be asked by the judge to renounce your other citizenships before they grant you nationality You just put your hand up and say yes, that's it. That's the end So all you're doing is giving them your word you're renouncing orally meanwhile according to u.s

[21:54] Law you've not renounced your citizenship at all No matter how many times you say you do in a foreign court now for you listeners who have renounced your u.s Citizenship, you know, it's quite a lengthy and formal process You have to fill out forms have your taxes reviewed make an appointment for an exit interview at a u.s Embassy pay exit taxes and penalties then go in front of a magistrate and formally renounce your citizenship And you'll get an official government document to prove it So yes, some latin countries do not allow dual citizenship Which seems like a huge hurdle an obstacle to overcome except according to the u.s government There's nothing legal about renouncing your citizenship orally in anyone's court anywhere So bottom line if you're looking to pick up dual citizenship in a latin country that says it doesn't allow dual citizenship

[22:42] Don't let that scare you just note. It's a routine formality and doesn't really mean anything And then elena asks a question I hear from a lot of people They say look if i've got two passports two legit passports and I happen to be traveling to different countries What happens? Let's say if I land in a country on my mexican passport and I decide to leave on my u.s passport What happens then? Well, i'll tell you that's something you never want to do you always Want to start and end your trip with the same passport because you see whatever passport you're using We'll have a date of entry stamp and it'll be in the computers also and let's suppose we'll use the same case here You land on august 1st in peru on your mexican passport Now suppose you've been there a month or two and you want to fly to germany now and use your u.s passport Not a good idea at all. In fact, you'll never make it out of that country

[23:28] They won't let you through the airport because the u.s passport you're about to use doesn't have an entry stamp for peru Any officials there will think you're in peru illegally unless of course you whip out the mexican passport that has the entrance stamp Even so they'll only let you leave the country on that same passport the mexican one They're looking for that entrance and exit stamp that proves the amount of days you were in the country So in the end that movie james bond spy stuff doesn't work You know where he opens up a secret drawer and he's got 15 passports in there just picks the one he wants to leave on That's just an easy cinematic device they use in the movies to move the plot along and keep the action going In the real world 007 would never make it on the plane instead He'd surely end up in the first class lounge getting drunk or shagging a flight attendant

[24:15] Which is always part of the plot too By the way, did you ever see a spy movie where someone pulled out a handful of passports and didn't get on an airplane without a hitch Hmm only in hollywood, huh? All right, this show number 672 is going out on june 30th. That means in just over a week on july 8th My expat insider seminar begins and believe it or not There's still a couple of people juggling for a position to get in right now So time's getting short But you can still sign up by going to www.thenewexpat.com and clicking on johnny's seminar link for full sign up information Hey, i've had people sign up for the seminar hours before it began So there's still time by the way If you're thinking about voting with your feet and getting that plan b underway But you haven't got started yet One of the very best ways to get it organized from right where you're sitting up in the states

[25:01] Is to sign up for my 9-hour expat essentials video course Just go to triple dub dot expat plan b.com and have a look at my three free introductory videos You got nothing to lose and so much to gain check it out. That's www.expatplanb.com now you listeners know you can always do a one-on-one phone or skype consultation with me Why well in most cases people just want to go over their plan b? Straighten out the small stuff in the details since everyone's plan b is a little bit different If you're thinking about doing a call with me, you should download my questionnaire slash phone consult form People tell me all the time. There are things listed there. They haven't thought about before So just go to www.thenewexpat.com and download that form. It's free

[25:48] Oh and one more thing about multiple passports. You're not picking up extra nationalities So you can travel around on different passports like man I think i'll use my argentine passport this time. I haven't used it in a while Nope, you get an extra passport as a backup like a spare tire for your car So for example, if you had a us and a honduran passport You'd surely be traveling on the us passport because you can get into more countries without a visa But if suddenly the us invaded a few more small countries and picked up a few more enemies It'd be you traveling on your american passport and the israeli guy sitting next to you who'd get chucked off the plane first So you'll get advanced warning where it's dangerous for americans to go and you'll be traveling on your honduran passport then Oh, and here's another way a second passport could be a get up jail free card

[26:36] Suppose you have a us and a panama passport you're in panama or anywhere in central america Suddenly you're at the airport trying to fly out and you find out the us government has put a block on your passport Could be a lot of reasons for that. You owe more than 50 000 in back taxes You're behind on your alimony or child support Or maybe you have too many guns and ready to eat meals in your basement Have you been tweeting nasty things about obamid or the dnc lately these days the us government can block your passport on a whim So now you're stuck, right? You're at the airport and your passport's been blocked in that case should be looking at the deportation order to the states But not if you held a second panamanian passport or any other passport for that matter Sure, once you got to the airport and figured it all out You'd probably be stuck there for a couple hours explaining it to authorities

[27:24] But as long as you've got another passport, you're not a stateless person and can't be deported Just use the other passport and you're on your way south of the border This is the expat files living in latin america If you want me to help you out with your own plan b just schedule a one-on-one consult Send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to learn how to move forward with your own plan b from right up there in the states go to www.expatplanb.com and check out my three videos. See ya nos vemos