Episode Summary
In this episode of The Expat Files, Johnny Mueller dives into the cost of living in Latin America, comparing local and international supermarket chains like Walmart and Costco. He highlights how local supermarkets, despite being less clean and organized, often offer lower prices. Johnny also touches on the cultural differences in how expats and locals approach shopping, especially with regard to appearance and the expectations of Latina partners.
He then discusses the availability and affordability of goods in Latin America, particularly in large Mercados and stores like Walmart and Costco. Johnny emphasizes the value of shopping at Mercados, where he can buy large quantities of fresh produce and other goods for a fraction of the cost. He also mentions the importance of hiring a porter to assist with heavy shopping and the benefits of learning Spanish to navigate these markets effectively.
Johnny further explores the cost of living in Latin America for expats, emphasizing that while it can be cheaper than the U.S., many expats end up paying 'gringo prices' that are significantly higher than what locals pay. He highlights the disparity in hotel pricing and advises expats to use a low-ball offer strategy when renting. He also promotes his upcoming expat seminar in Guatemala and mentions the prevalence of counterfeit pharmaceuticals in local markets.
The segment transitions to a discussion on the informal drug trade in Latin America, highlighting the prevalence of unlicensed pharmacies and the lack of legal enforcement. Johnny shares anecdotes about the creativity of drug sellers, such as selling rat poison branded with religious imagery. Finally, he reflects on the reading habits of Latinos and Latinas in Latin America, noting that while bookstores are present in upscale malls, they are often not frequented by adults. He also offers practical advice for expats on accessing books through online libraries and digital formats.
Topics
Cost of living in Latin America, Supermarket experiences, Cultural differences in expat life, Comparison of local and international supermarket chains, Shopping in Latin America, Affordability of goods, Local markets and Mercados, Expatriate experience, Cultural adaptation, Gringo prices vs. local prices, Hotel pricing disparities, Rental market in Latin America
Chapters
00:00:00 Opening 00:00:32 Proving the Price of Food in Latin America 00:01:31 Survival of Local Supermarkets in the Face of Competition 00:05:02 Cultural Expectations and Shopping Habits 00:05:55 Introduction to Latin American Stores 00:05:58 Comparison of Products in Latin America and the U.S. 00:06:01 Local Production and Affordability 00:06:07 Examples of Locally Made Products 00:06:14 Price Comparison and Cost Savings 00:06:21 Personal Experience with Costco and Walmart 00:06:26 Specific Items Not Found in Local Stores 00:06:33 Whole Foods Clones in Latin America 00:11:51 Living Off the Gringo Tourist Trail 00:11:53 The Cost of Living in Latin America 00:11:58 Cheaper Than Living in the States 00:12:00 Expats and Their Shopping Habits 00:12:03 Gringo Products and Their Prices 00:12:08 Living Cheap Without Sacrificing Anything 00:12:12 Gringo Prices vs. Local Prices 00:12:19 The Truth About Gringo Prices 00:17:45 The Drug Trade and Its Informal Nature in Latin America 00:20:31 Transition to Discussing Free Online Libraries for Expats 00:23:05 Bookstores in High-End Malls and Reading Habits of Latinos and Latinas 00:23:49 English-Language Books as Marketing Tools in High-End Settings 00:25:33 Critique of Superficial Marketing Practices in Real Estate and Billboards 00:26:15 Access to Books for Expats and Gringos Through Online Libraries
Transcript
Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.
[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came out to play and now as I wonder Hello there all you expat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started You know the other day I wanted to prove something to myself about the price of food here in Latin America Oh, it's definitely cheaper than it is up by you. That's for sure and there's more variety and more of it, too But you see I wanted to prove a point to some fresh green gringo said it landed down here
[00:48] They've been maybe three months working on their plan B getting settled and stuff and still they hadn't gone to one of those big outdoor markets They were shopping for practically everything at the usual suspect stores Costco Walmart Dispensa maxi bodega Tori Those are just some of the names of the big Latin American supermarket chains that compete with Walmart and Costco at least here in Central America One thing about the local supermarket chains that have been down here a long time well before Walmart They try hard like a bus rent a car but they just can't pull it off as far as cleanliness lighting and ergonomics as Compared with their first world competition So they do the next best thing and have lower prices Which is why they continue to survive in the face of competition like Walmart
[01:36] For example, it could be a Walmart right down the street from a big Latin American supermarket chain store They're up and is you know and the Latin store will have almost the same stuff yet It'll always be slightly lower in price than Walmart or the Costco maybe 10% Not much, but consistently a little less now of course when I first got down here 27 years ago In fact up to maybe 10 years ago. There were no US supermarket chains No, Costco was Walmart's whatever, but there were plenty of Latin American supermarket chains And no matter what size they were big or small they were always scruffy Badly lit with parts of the floor mung up even missing tiles horrendous bathrooms and the traffic flow the product placement Well, let's be kind and say haphazard the very definition of third world
[02:24] However about 10 years ago when Walmart and Costco first started entering the Latin market now Suddenly the local boys had some real competition even though the prices like I said were maybe 10% higher US stores like Walmart and Costco are built just like Walmart and Costco in the States plenty of lighting Nicely organized big wide aisles clean-looking shelving and displays designed by well Specialists anyway after the first world supermarkets landed the local supermarket chains felt the hit They figured in order to survive they had to have to spiff up their images So nowadays you see plenty of Latin businesses trying to up their game though It only seems to last a season or two then the scruffiness factor kind of creeps back in again Hey, I don't mean to say Walmart Costco Sears Ace Hardware are any great shakes
[03:14] But it's something you can relate to a piece of the first world that's been transplanted down here and it's monotonous but consistent So it's kind of a general rule the scruffier the local Latin American supermarket the lower the prices compared to the big first world chains However, the mom-and-pop little corner tien does that are sort of like 7-elevens gone to seed I mean really gone to seed they too like convenience stores up in the States are a bit more pricey than the big supermarkets That's why they call them convenience store You pay a little extra for the convenience of them being right outside your neighborhood So you don't have to get dressed up make yourself presentable Jump in the car and drive a couple of miles to one of the bigger supermarkets Wait a minute. Let me expand a little on that now most guys including me won't dress up and make themselves
[04:01] Presentable just to go to the store to buy something doesn't matter if it's a big supermarket or not Not to mention a guy's definition of presentable is a lot different than a woman's so guys straight guys Anyway, we'll pop out to get something no matter what we look like But ladies especially Latinas will spend an hour sometimes more getting made up Just to run to the store for 10 minutes to pick up some eggs or some shampoo Yeah, as if they might run into a Hollywood talent scout in a shell station or Tienda parking lot in Chicha Castanango Who knows but this I can tell you if you're down here in Latin America and do have a Latina Significant other she will not let you walk out of the house looking like a slouch Even if all you want to do is hit the corner Tienda to buy a Sunday paper
[04:47] Now I don't know what it's like for couples up in the States, but down here Gringos are used to hearing that refrain. You're not going out looking like that Then she'll grab your face and start fixing your hair. Yep That's what you'll have to look forward to guys if you have a Latina Significant other but we were talking about cost of living and price of foods and supermarkets and such, right? So anyway, this new gringo couple came down started their plan B Been here a few months now and never yet stepped out beyond the big Supermarkets in the malls to go to those big open produce and fruit markets by the way, they're called Mercados here Mercados and when I saw him one day their car just stuffed with Walmart bags I said someday you really have to get out to the big market most all the stuff at Walmart
[05:32] Costs about the same as it does in the States Then the young gringo lady. She's 30 ish said Oh, no, Johnny the fruits and vegetables and produce that stuffs about half of what we pay for it in Atlanta We're pretty happy about that But you're right. She said if I want to buy some of the same brand name stuff at the Walmart's up in the States It's about the same price Now Latin Walmart's and Costco's here in Latin America Carry nearly identical stuff as the ones up in the States But they do carry a lot of locally produced stuff to fresh produce, of course, but much more than that For example, you'll find locally made hot sauce honey coffee baked goods butcher shop products And that locally made stuff will always be cheaper than the imported brand names. All right full disclosure here
[06:21] I have a Costco card and I go to Walmart once in a while if I have to pick up something like Stevia or sea salt which is something the little corner tienes and big Mercados will never have Oh, and you might remember in a past show. I mentioned there are Whole Foods clones, too For my money, they're bogus and way overpriced just like Whole Foods in the States I wouldn't go there So I do almost all of my food and produce shopping at those big giant Mercados For me if I go there and spend 40 bucks, that'll hold me for two weeks for sure You just can't carry all of that yourself. You have to hire one of those little porters to help you Yep When you go to one of those big Mercados you want to stock up on as much stuff as you can at one time
[07:06] So it's worth your while to hire one of those guys besides you got the guy for probably a whole hour And you only have to pay him a buck to a buck and a half for the privilege I always ask him what he wants to charge give me a price and he does and I pay it and if he's a nice guy Tip him but back to our newbie gringo couple who haven't been to one of those big markets yet Then I said that's one of the great things about Latin America those gigantic markets when I asked him why they hadn't gone Well, they both looked at each other and the gringo said I don't know It's just so big and crazy in a scruffy part of town and we don't speak any Spanish Well, you know that says it all and I know just how they feel because when I first got down here to Latin America I felt exactly the same way
[07:51] Of course back then there were practically no US franchises in all of Latin America except McDonald's But lots and lots of mom-and-pop corner tienes and Latin style supermarkets All of them as mentioned pretty scruffy or I should say when they're new they're nice and spiffy like anything new But after about six months or a year, they all kind of degenerate At least they did back then before the Walmart's TGIF's gold gyms and Applebee's start moving in so in a way I knew exactly what they were feeling. I've been through it myself those big even small Mercado's They're small ones around here, too Though for a long time I would never venture in those places either Not so much because they're chaotic and in run-down scruffy areas That doesn't bother me that shouldn't bother you because during the day most areas of Latin America are perfectly safe
[08:42] Especially where there's a Mercado those places are always safe and self-policing My problem as the gringo lady pointed out was that my Spanish sucked probably worse than hers did It's an awkward feeling. We just can't get across a simple point to someone I've been there a thousand times now, of course if you're on the gringo tourist trail They'll have big outdoor Mercado's too so when you shop there you'll see gringos and Many if not most the sellers will know enough English to be able to work things out with you But again when you're on the gringo tourist trail The local sellers in the Mercado charge what the gringo traffic will bear so prices will always be much higher Elsewhere where gringos are scarce and this you can take to the bank Hmm did I say take to the bank they have to get rid of that saying it doesn't work anymore
[09:31] Does it whatever fruits vegetables and produce you buy in a Walmart or a Costco? They'll be half that price or less at one of the big or small outdoor markets I've proved that to myself over and over again. For example last time I was in Walmart They had Haas avocados around a buck and a half a pound. That'll get you two nice sized avocados And at your average Walmart up in the States, they're about twice that however in those big open Mercado's the kind I go to About every two weeks I can routinely buy three or four for a buck and often five or six for a buck Take watermelons For example at Walmart a medium sized job will run you three bucks in the big Mercado a buck to a buck fifty That's the breakdown for practically all the fresh produce
[10:18] So definitely if you shop in the big Mercado's down here You'll pay a quarter or less of what you're paying for the same stuff up in the States only sell much much more than that in The big markets and that stuff's always a lot cheaper than say the local hardware store. So why is that stuff so cheap? Well, they've got no overhead. They don't have a store. They don't have to pay taxes. No electric or water bill No cash registers, for example my remote for my TV Which is an LG hit the tile floor one too many times and gave up the ghost when the local hardware slash Electronic store six to eight bucks for a real LG brand not one of those universal jobs the real thing Meanwhile in the big Mercado, there's a guy with all kinds of electronic junk iPhone and Android connectors and covers
[11:04] batteries rechargers keyboards speakers cables electrical outlets Walkie-talkies gaming stuff. Well, it's got the same LG remote as the electronic store for two bucks Less than half of what they charge at a retail electronics store So here's further proof you could live the good life here in Latin America on a measly social security check not to mention You'll be thousands of miles away from the time vampires a-holes the treadmill and the stress Well the moral of the story is that most people who come down here permanently that is they start their plan B off in a Latin Country, they still try to cling to what's comfortable like Walmart Costco Even Starbucks McDonald's Kentucky pride and all that gut-wrenching first-world junk food and you know
[11:51] I live way off the gringo tourist trail And I've never yet met a single gringo expat who said living here in Latin America wasn't significantly Cheaper than living up in the states even if they were somewhat on the gringo tourist trail and Had a hanker in the shop at Walmart Costco and other places where they could pick up a lot of the gringo products They were used to up in the states. So you could say there's living cheap without Sacrificing anything and there's living cheap paying gringo prices because the truth is many times gringo prices aren't actually gringo prices at all It's just a name people give to prices that are obviously higher than what the locals pay for stuff Good example when you go to a nice hotel You might be ecstatic when you walk in and you see the room rates are 75 bucks a night, man You're probably thinking a hotel like that would cost twice as much up in Boston. Yep
[12:41] The sign says 75 bucks a night including breakfast. Most gringos pay it and are happy to do so However, if you hang around the lobby and you speak Spanish and you keep your eyes open you might notice Latin people who walk in generally won't pay the rack rate written right on the little sign at the front desk They'll say something like qualities sue me or press here. What's your best price? And man, I've seen it myself many times suddenly a $75 a night rack rate becomes 55 bucks or even 45 now, I know gringos and expats are not used to haggling especially fresh green gringos and expats They see the price on an item if it sounds good They pay and you know, it always shocks me when I see hotel rates on the internet many times They're twice as high is what you'd pay if you contacted the hotel directly yourself
[13:31] But booking things on the net these days seems to be the way to go for gringos and expats up in the states Somehow they think if they search long and hard enough, they'll get the best deal Not necessarily so even worse if you're up in the state searching the web for rentals in a particular place in Latin America At this point in time, there's such an oversupply of medium and high-end housing It's becoming a tremendous renters market though You wouldn't know it if you searched around for rentals on the net why well because a lot of owners are fishing for gringos Who will pay those higher prices because they still look like good deals compared to rental prices up in the states But I'm here to tell you right now. They're still overbuilding. There are projects going up I'm sure we'll never get finished and 95% of it's in the medium to high-end just where gringos and expats want to rent or buy
[14:21] Except chances are if you're in a newer brand-new subdivision, you'll probably not have many neighbors Which is why my best advice for renting is find five or six places you like better yet If you're in Central America, talk to one of my expat concierge ladies, she'll search out some properties for you So when you visit you'll be all set to check out a few places the doors will be open That's one tip but my best tip I think is you find five or six places Let's say they're all going between eight and twelve hundred bucks a month Well, you give them all a low-ball offer if it was me I'd say 600 and remember the closer you get to the gringo tourist trail the higher prices will be anyway You politely tell each and every one of the owners or whoever's taking you through you're gonna pay 600 a month
[15:06] But of course, they'll turn your offer down. In fact, they might even huff and act a little insulted Nevertheless, give them your name and email and tell them look if you're interested Give me a call because I have cash and I'll pay six months ahead or a year ahead Whatever and it's either you or someone else who's gonna get my money. Remember it's cash Then just leave and wait a couple days The phone calls will trickle in in fact I personally held the hands of a few gringos and expats going through the process and I've seen owners asking 800 a month Drop their price to 400. In fact, just last week. I was visiting a gringo in a relatively new gated guarded community He told me that just on his block of five pretty nice townhouses three were unoccupied and up for rent Oh and remember if you come down to my January 2018 expat insider seminar
[15:54] You'll see those kind of details with your own eyes because we spend a whole day on real estate the good the bad the ugly And the great since this show is going out on December 10th We're about a month away from the seminar launch You still have time to get on board and if you want to kill two birds with one stone That is come to the seminar and apply for your permanent or temporary residency in Guatemala Remember, it's one of the easiest cheapest and most lenient residency programs in all of Latin America at least for now Anyway, though, they're all slowly getting more strict about their requirements So you have to act soon before these windows of opportunity just aren't there anymore To do that go to the new expat dot-com website and check out the seminar signup information the Guatemala Residency program and those famous John Galt pre and post seminar trips because you know, it's not just about boots on the ground
[16:47] It's about quality boots on the ground. Oh and earlier I was talking about those big Latin Mercado's markets Well, I saw something weird the other day had to laugh Or I should say you see something weird every time you go. It's a lot of fun Actually, there was this little guy walking around selling all kinds of pharmaceutical stuff a little mobile pharmacy He was that's not unusual in itself in the Mercado. You see dozens of people doing that I suppose all his penicillin ampicillin Tetris cycline and yes Viagra, hey, so it fell off a truck, right? I mean really how else would he be able to sell Viagra for a buck a pill? Not that I'm interested myself, but he had three different kinds of Viagra clones and another thing Why is it that every time one of these guys sees a gringo you runs up to him and shows him a box of Viagra
[17:36] And they say us gringos profile people, you know I like to go up to those guys and see just what kind of drugs they have for sale and I check wouldn't you know It the expiration dates. Obviously, these guys are selling a lot of drugs. They have a lot of turnover You know, they're all in blister packs, which is good I guess and I never once saw one past its expiration date some way out in the future three or four years Hmm must fill up a truck very recently So you got little guys like that selling in pharmaceuticals right out in front of real pharmacies and undercutting them by half So is it legal legal is a very nebulous word here in Latin America now really it can't be legal I mean to sell drugs anywhere in any country you have to be
[18:22] Duly licensed pharmacy you'd think but then again if you look in the classified ad sections of big Latin newspapers You'll see ads where people in businesses I guess are selling all kinds of drugs like that directly to the public to whoever answers the ad I mean when you think about it What's a guy living in a regular middle class or lower middle class residential neighborhood doing with ten cases of clindamycin and 15 cases of Viagra in his garage and how is it possible he could sell that stuff on Olex.com or in the classified news sections of the papers. How is that legal? Well, it can't be even so There's no enforcement and there's no FDA. So does that piss you off? That's that stuff make you mad now most green gringles When they get a whiff of what's happened in there, they're outraged They say it's like the Wild West here
[19:10] But after a while they all slowly start singing a different tune After years of being afraid harassed and intimidated by their own government They realize a toothless government is the way to go like for example that little guy with the mobile pharmacy while I was standing there Two beat cops walked right up and guess what they stopped they smiled They looked at me and said buenos dias because certainly I was the only gringo They'd seen all day maybe all week now imagine if you're in Seattle or Cleveland walking around Hawking a cart full of prescription drugs or putting an ad in the paper or online You know, it's unimaginable. That just would never happen Oh and the high point of my little meetup with that guy was the fact he was also selling rat poison
[19:57] Well, you know, I guess in a way rat poisons a drug too, right? But get this the brand name on the rat poison was the Last Supper And believe it or not There was a picture on every package of the famous Last Supper scene Jesus there at the table with his disciples and guess what? There's a big old rat at the end of the table begging for food What a gimmick you got to love it though I guarantee you won't find any of that stuff for sale around Easter time because an extremely Christian Latin America That would be irreverent bordering on blast for me, but it's a hoot any other time of the year All right. Now we got an email from Burnaby something a lot of gringles and expats are interested in He says Johnny in a previous show you mentioned there are some free online libraries where you can download books
[20:43] You got any links? Well, mr. B glad she brought that up You see many years ago when I first got down to Latin America I ended up on the gringo tourist trail like so many people Costa Rica in my case That was before the age of the internet even dial-up modems here in Latin America And you know back then most gringles and expats and especially backpackers always carried reading material with them And since there was no internet or Kindle or books to download Hotels and hostels on the gringo tourist trail always had a little lending library going in their lobby and also on the gringo tourist Well, there were many used bookstores You could sell them your books for maybe a buck apiece and then they'd sell you theirs for two or three bucks and believe me Where there are gringos. It was a pretty good business. So what about libraries?
[21:30] Of course universities and the schools have their libraries, but they're generally not gonna have a section with English books now that's not to say they don't have some public libraries, but they're far and few in between and they're found mostly in the big cities and They're not lending libraries. You can go in there and read books, but you can't check them out Well, that's because a long long time ago They found out people would check them out and never bring them back and since care Maintenance and details are not Latin strong points books that were returned often came back in bad condition Especially during the rainy season Which reminds me of a time some years back when I was in a coffee shop sitting next to a university student I noticed he was writing a term paper in longhand didn't even have a computer a keyboard Anyway, he had some pages spread out on the table. I noticed a set of driveway chicken footprints
[22:20] Apparently this guy's family had chickens in the house. I wonder you think he lost points for neatness Hmm so anyway If you were in Latin America years ago before the internet reading material was in great demand The only place you could ever find it in quantity or quality was on the gringo tourist trail in Hotels and hostels and at certain news bookstores and when you're off the gringo trail man Pickens were scarce Which is why back then I'd actually make the occasional jaunt into a tourist area just to check out the bookstores And to occasionally steal a few books from hotel lending libraries. Come on. Don't tell me you've never swiped a book You've heard me say a number of times that in the Latin culture people are just not readers However, they do have bookstores mostly in fact in high-end malls because well wealthy Latins buy books though
[23:12] They may not read them seems like upscale Latins always have a bookshelf Prominently on display as well as a few coffee table books, even though I'm sure they've never cracked them open How I know that because I've cracked open a few and you can tell by the stiffness and the binding when it's been a virgin In fact, it's sad to say I've only seen Latino and Latina school kids and university students reading books The only time I've ever seen an adult Latino crack a book was at a beach resort Even then that's a pretty rare sight So even though for most North Americans readings are kind of a lost art Latinos don't read books either But it's not a lost art that would imply it's something they lost and once had but like I said in medium and upscale malls They'll always have at least one bookstore and these days they even carry a rack or display of first world English
[24:04] Bestsellers always pretty much last year's bestsellers and at twice or three times the price should pay up in the States So then who buys those books in English? Well, it beats me I've never seen a gringo or an expat go into one of those stores and buy one Why would they pay 25 or 30 bucks when they could go online and get a Kindle version for a buck or two? Or free from an online library though I have spotted a bestseller or near bestseller in English when strolling through a high-end furniture store, you know Just like in the States. They've got beautiful model rooms to stroll through living rooms dining rooms kitchens dens You know what I mean? So I've seen best-selling books in English set there as props. It's marketing You know, it's a way of saying our upscale furniture and model rooms are fit for gringos. Am I being too cynical here?
[24:52] Well, I'm telling you that's exactly what they do come down and check it out for yourself Same thing when you're observing billboards and road signs in upscale Latin neighborhoods Practically the whole sign will be in Spanish Why not everyone speaks Spanish and they'll throw a few words of English in there kind of confusing really because most people have no But to show that that business is kind of sort of first-world ish like for example I can't tell you how many real estate billboards I've seen on highways where they point out that the rooms have walking Closets no not walk in closets walking Walking as if the closet will just get up someday and walk away at first you think it's a joke Then you realize they're just a bunch of under educated superficial fools who are trying way too hard
[25:39] I mean this walking closet things kind of a contagion Yeah, even see it in real estate magazines and in the paper at the same time gringos who happen to notice those things are Laughing out loud thinking what a bunch of morons. I mean, come on. How ridiculous is a walking closet? I get it a closet with artificial intelligence kind of like a dog. It wants to take a walk after dinner You know what? I want one Alright enough said about that, you know It is a fact that most gringos and expats coming down our actual readers high percentage of them are you can get books? All over the place on the net iTunes Amazon a hundred places plus almost all US city libraries have online libraries, too So if you live in Latin America You need only search the internet for the US city you once lived in or our nearest to or what your relatives might live
[26:31] And they'll set you up with a free password and a code to borrow titles Usually you have access to a book for around three weeks And if you're not finished then you have to renew it and all the free online libraries let you download Millions of titles both brand new and old as well as movies documentaries and audiobooks your best bet before you even come down to Latin America is to sign up at your local public library for The online version and you're set as for me believe it or not I used the Cleveland Public Library's online library courtesy of Captain Mango who hooked me up and why Cleveland well plausible denial my friends Plausible denial now for those of you who still like to hold a processed piece of wood pulp in your hand that is Real formerly alive book. Yep hotels and hostels still have little lending libraries
[27:21] And when you're on the gringo tours trail, there are used bookstores, too But if you're traveling light ebooks are the way to go, you know, you can put thousands of them on a flash drive South of the border This is the expat files living in Latin America If you want me to help you out with your own plan B Just schedule a one-on-one consult send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to learn how to move forward with your own plan B from right up there in the states go to www.xpatplanb.com and check out my three videos. See ya nos vemos