#1086 – The Expat Files: Language, Culture, and the Art of Haggling in Latin America

Automatically transcribed from the original recording; names and wording may contain errors.

[00:00] South of the border down Mexico way That's where I fell in love when the stars above came up to play and now that I wonder Hello there all you ex-pat wannabes. I'm Johnny Mueller and you're listening to the expat files living in Latin America The show that tells you just what it's like to live work play and or retire down here in Latin America It's a mix of the good the bad the ugly and the great and it's all right here. So let's get started Remember a couple of shows ago when we were discussing Spanish dunces like me gringos and expats We have a hard time learning Spanish. Hey, there are millions of us out there I run into those kind of expats all the time some have been down here ten years or more and still can't converse properly with

[00:48] Their cleaning ladies oddly enough though lady expats seem to do a hundred percent better than their male counterparts now Why do you think that is our guys just stubborn and give up easily and are women more flexible patient and tolerant? We'll get to that in a little bit. Of course in the first few months You're down almost all newbies pick up on certain Spanish language hacks That'll get you by in the grocery store the gas station in the bank But to actually have a real normal conversation with a local person in Spanish Only a very small percentage of gringos and expats living down here permanently can pull that off now If you remember I once said maybe more than once said my personal hallelujah moment came when I was about five years here in Latin America Of course, I don't count my first almost three years in Costa Rica because everybody speaks English to you You cannot learn your Spanish not as you might think by rubbing elbows with the common folks day to day that works though

[01:40] Almost every place else in Latin America off the gringo tourist trail certainly not in Costa Rica So my Spanish hallelujah moment came when one day I was in an elevator with two 40-something Latinas They spoke to each other and I understood nearly everything they were saying of course each time I moved or relocated to another Latin country It took me a couple of months to get the hang of their accents in their slang and the most Frustrating thing for me when I was learning Spanish Well, I tried practically all of the learning options first off the immersion family thing You know when you sign on to live with a Latino family who know absolutely no English So it has to rub off on you, which I feel by the way It's the second best way to learn your Spanish the number one way of course is to have a non-English speaking Latino or Latina

[02:25] Significant other anyway, I tried the immersion family thing, but my stomach only lasted a couple of days In other words my gut bacteria weren't on board with that idea at all because you know you're living with the family So you have to eat with them too the deal includes room and board and if you don't eat their food It's a big insult to the mother of the family Oh, and I had a problem with the ever disgusting bathroom situation, too You don't want to know well, maybe you do hmm, but not now some other time Oh and back in the days when I first came down those were the days when everyone had a Walkman remember those Sony produced Hundreds of millions. Where are they now in that Texas sized plastic patch out in the ocean? Maybe man just thinking about that so disgusting well unfortunately for some people and especially people in developing nations The world is their dumpster then again

[03:12] I remember back in the 60s and 70s up in the states the world was our dumpster too Until you got that $500 fine for littering anyway after that immersion family fiasco I whipped out that Walkman and tried my luck with some of those Spanish cassette tape and CD audio courses They helped me learn Spanish vocabulary words for a while anyway But they just didn't stick like I wanted them to and that method did even less for the conversational part I found out the hard way after countless boring hours of listening to that stuff That you have to be face-to-face with a real person one-on-one At least that seemed like the only way for me to get up to speed So I ditched the tapes and CDs and I did a little additional something that worked pretty good for me It's how I learned most of my vocabulary words that actually stuck with me I bought some of those paper posted pads went around the house stuck those notes everywhere and wrote down the Spanish name for

[04:03] The item they were stuck to and another thing my disadvantage too Is that I came down in a very very early days of the internet no streaming no mp3 downloads and most of the time no Connection but now the great advantage is you can get online with zoom or whatever and get a one-on-one in your face real live Spanish teacher though the problem is most people tell me it's no fun at all. Hey, I'll vouch for that It's just boring going to Spanish classes taking Spanish lessons online or even listening to those audio courses Which involved taking tests and filling out workbooks? The thing is you have to have patience and desire especially since most who come down permanently are Older and have not been back to school for decades and for most of us, especially the guys school days were not fun experiences Hey, I know they weren't supposed to be there was supposed to be more like work and who wants to get in that groove again

[04:51] I don't know about you But for me school was no fun for us baby boomers It was something our parents programmed into us that it just had to be done In fact, I can count on maybe three fingers the persons I've met in my life who actually loved school One of those was my mother who became a professor and all that figures. Have you loved school? That's perfect I have to tell you though. I've never met a guy a male, you know xy chromosome We're still allowed to say that without being canceled, right? Hmm WTF anyway every stateside male I know when asked that question about school would much rather have been doing something else anything else That means millions who got their bachelor's master's even PhDs and doctorates did so in the hopes of having a good career Even though they didn't like it much. They did it because their parents always reminded them

[05:39] That was what they had to do to get ahead. All right. All right I know now I'm gonna get all kinds of email from ladies telling me how much they loved school though I'll bet you a C note. There won't be one single email from a guy Well, maybe from my guy who was captain of the football team or a kiss-ass student council president And maybe a gay guy or two. I've known a few gays who really did like school, but I digress. Where were we? Oh, yeah, why it's so hard for gringos to learn Spanish You know the overwhelming majority of gringos and expats who do speak Spanish are Women and they're the ones for example when I ask how's your Spanish? They'll inevitably say not great and then you'll see them in the market or someplace and I'll be tucking a blue streak in Spanish to one of the locals It seems like a gringo male thing to overestimate how much Spanish you think you know

[06:27] A lot of hyperbole when you ask a guy where his Spanish rates on a 1 to 10 He'll usually give himself two points more than he deserves and when you ask a lady gringa She'll underestimate by two points, which brings me to this email from a listener who believes he's discovered the fast-track gringo Key to learning Spanish. Hey, everyone's looking for that magic bullet. So let's hear him out He says he developed a system that'll let you learn pretty decent conversational Spanish in just three months. He says hey Johnny I recently rediscovered your podcast glad you're still going strong He says you recently spoke in your podcast about learning Spanish if you're interested I'd like to share a system that I invented which no one else has ever tried yet It's very effective with this system I was highly functional in three months and was able to talk circles around my gringo compatriots

[07:14] Even the ones were actively taking Spanish classes. Why does it take so long for some of us to learn? It's a teaching problem Spanish schools and tutors all use the same underlying methodology Which is primarily academic and more importantly gets into complex sentences and different verb tenses much too quickly So we learned this type of school Spanish in our classes But when it comes to everyday use it just doesn't transfer to street level as to the system I've invented there are three parts in the beginning Johnny when I first started learning Spanish I got a book from the library here in Mexico called Spanish in 10 minutes a day It was a vocabulary book with pictures, which is about my speed every afternoon I'd sit on a rooftop patio with a survey sand read out loud from the book for up to an hour

[08:01] It was simple enough and one day I even heard a shout and looked up to see a Mexican maintenance guy looking down from the tiles on top the roof next door Waving at me. He said my Spanish was very good And before long I could speak Spanish in a local corner stores and restaurants and hold simple conversations So I found the key is to learn vocabulary and read it out loud But there's one big problem the vocabulary and most of the books and courses that we come across is in European Spanish from Spain which is very different from Spanish spoken by Compassinos and the abuelitas the grandma's in the barrio So the question is how can you get learning materials that have the local vocabulary? Well, it's easier than you might think for example throughout Latin America. There are flyers everywhere

[08:47] Always appearing in the mail and catalogs and people handing them out often piled up in supermarkets and department stores, too For the early language learner. These are a gold mine of local vocabulary. They got pictures They use very local Spanish and they're free and also instead of looking for books to try to get the local Spanish down We can do the reverse Latinos are always trying to learn English and it's even taught in the local school So we can use the same books that the local kindergarten kids use to learn English Except we just have to use them in reverse to learn Spanish You can find those same books that kindergarteners use in stationery stores and supermarkets here I find the kindergarten level learning is just perfect for new expats That's the vocabulary part of my system. The second part of my system is to learn pronunciation correctly

[09:36] Just like the locals pronounce the words I find whatever pronunciation I learn at the very beginning will stay with me for a long time Of course, there are a large number of websites and YouTube videos that teach the basics of pronunciation It's a good place to start But again, there's a problem after teaching the basics of pronunciation correctly most YouTube videos even private tutors will start to teach it All wrong. They begin using repeat after me phrases. They over pronounce over enunciate and speak painfully slow Promise you'll never hear Spanish spoken like that in real life If you're out and about and you're waiting for someone to speak like that, it ain't gonna happen All right me John here for a second You know the biggest complaint I hear from gringos and expats who haven't got their Spanish down yet Is that Latinos speak in machine gun fashion rapid fire? Well, guess what?

[10:23] They're not gonna slow down for you or me So you're gonna have to deal with it or you're never gonna get your Spanish down and Latinos learning their English say the very same thing About us we speak rapid-fire English and we're not gonna slow down for them either And that's why so many Latinos who take English lessons throw in the towel Then he says Johnny if you're looking to learn your Spanish from YouTube videos There's tons of them out there The trick is to find videos given by instructors who are living close to your area Then you'll hear the common words Everyone's using on the street and the accent where you're living that leads us to the final part of my system finding a conversation tutor It's best to find someone who's a native speaker from your own area again. That's obvious Then you'll hear all the words. They're using in your nearby neighborhoods. So how do we find something like that online? We can use online language exchange websites or find a neighbor who's happy to give us conversation

[11:15] Classes for a few pesos and a coca-cola or lunch high school and university students in your area make good Tutors too, but if they want to have an interchange and learn some English then don't pay them because then you'll have a different arrangement They'll be pumping you for English words You'll be pumping them for Spanish and one will gain over the other it'll never be equal sometimes single mothers make excellent tutors, too But if you're an eligible male lookout, you'll want her to have a boyfriend or she'll have other ideas All right me Johnny here again I personally think having a single mother as a Spanish tutor does have its risk It can be a bit dangerous because if she doesn't have a boyfriend She'll have her eyes set on you as a possibility and that could get strange and if she does have a boyfriend Well, you remember all those times. We've talked about toxic male macho jealousy. Let's put it this way

[12:01] You don't want to get between a jealous Latino and his ex even if your tutor relationship is beyond innocent He just might show up in the park or outdoor cafe where you and his ex or present girlfriend are doing your lessons That could get uncomfortably tense. In fact, I know of two cases where that has happened You know, I mentioned before how boring learning Spanish and taking Spanish lessons can be but there are ways to really minimize even cut out boredom Completely by for example having your Spanish lesson over breakfast every morning at an outdoor cafe The environment makes it a lot more palatable though That also means you'll get stuck forking over breakfast for the both of you in addition to what it cost you for the lessons Hardly a deal-breaker though. And because this is Latin America. Everything's extremely negotiable down here Haggling is an art form by the way

[12:46] That's another reason why Latinos seem to like dealing with gringos so much because we're not Experts in the art of the haggle we cave quickly. For example, just the other day I was walking with 240 something gringas in a busy city area near a Central Park and a guy came up Actually two guys came up each with a little briefcase full of turquoise amber and sterling silver jewelry Yep, they eagle I spotted two gringas from across the park and rushed on over. They know All right gringa tourists are suckers for trinkets and jewelry because they always feel obligated to bring souvenirs back to the friends and family though T-shirts and baseball hats with funky Spanish sayings on them are great to bring home for the guys Jewelry always works well for the ladies and jewelry street vendors They know if they can just get a gringa to stop and look at the stuff

[13:33] Chances are though by a half a dozen bracelets and chains and take care of the whole female side of the family at once So the two gringas I was with were obvious tourists newbies who've never been off the tourist trail before anyway These two newbie ladies were clueless about vendor scams Street vendors are always trying to sell you gold or silver that ain't really gold or silver It's plated or plenty other but how's the average person supposed to know that well You look really close at the jewelry and the clasp Don't you see if it's a stamp 14 or 18 carat or stamped fine silver or sterling silver or point nine then you're sure it's The real thing everybody knows that right well in the first world maybe but down here forget about it Unless it's of course you're in a decent jewelry store that's been in business a long time They have to follow those guidelines those stamping rules

[14:20] However for about five bucks anyone can buy a punch online That says 14 or 18 K fine silver point nine Whatever then just buy some cheap bracelets and chains that are plated plated and start stamping and punching So my advice is unless you really know what you're doing never buy expensive jewelry from street vendors in Latin America So anyway, I'm there with these two gringas I spot the guy coming at us and I say to the girls right away Whatever his prices you could get it for half and they said tell us how I said you'll pick out some stuff The guy will give you a price and you say no way that's too expensive Oh, and they'll know enough English to negotiate, too Then the moment will come where he says well make me an offer and then you offer him half He'll look a bit insulted. He'll come back with a 10 or 15 percent price cut then you say that's okay

[15:08] I'll look around I'm not in a rush and then he'll drop the price another 5 or 10 percent and you shake your head No and start walking away and he'll follow you Oh and he'll give you all this business about how his jewelry is three times as expensive in a local jewelry store and all That but you hold firm shake your head No and start walking and nine times out of ten you'll get your price And if you don't could be 20 minutes half an hour or even an hour later Suddenly the guy will show up wherever you are sitting in a corner cafe throwing rocks into a water fountain He'll track it out and say all right deal. Oh and beware of the guy that takes your offer way too quickly He jumps right on it Let's say you offer him half and he comes back with a 10 percent cut and you say no half and he says Okay, then something really is fishy. It's probably worth half of the half you've offered him

[15:55] So beware if when you're really low ball him, he bites way too quickly though under one condition He'll never come down to half. That's when he's got another customer to standing around. He knows gringos aren't good haggler He doesn't want to drop his price in half in front of other customers He knows will be easy pushovers The other thing is and Latino street vendors know especially when it comes to gringas We sort of feel embarrassed to really lowball them I've seen gringos and gringos buys souvenirs and jewelry without haggling at all They pay full price and later when they try to tell me what a great deal it was sometimes I'll tell them if I'm in an ornery mood or if they're a jerk that they paid twice as much as they had to and They'll usually say something like he's got to make a living too And he looked pretty needy and that's just one reason why tourists pay way more than they have to because they see how poor

[16:43] They are comparatively speaking Plus it's also true that if you're really lowball them, they'll get loud and defensive But you know when I see that happen It's a show part of the theater of the whole thing and how do I know that well That's because most of the time an hour later The guy will show up friendly as can be where you're having an ice cream and say it's a deal now I know some gringos and expats don't have the stomach for that kind of negotiation I'll just pay what the guy asks nothing wrong with that, but you have to remember It's a society that expects a little haggling. It's part of the game So why not dig in and hold your ground and of course the idea that street vendors have a rough life. They're living from day to day Well, that's true. But remember if they sell something at 50% off, they're still making money or they wouldn't sell it to you They're just not making as big a margin as they would from the average clueless gringo. Remember though

[17:30] We're talking about buying nice souvenirs Not the really cheap junk that the really poor people and they're very young kids will try to sell you stuff like pencil holders Tiny carvings ashtrays coin purses and tacky nickel and dime stuff what I'll do sometimes and Many long-term gringos and expats will do it to a ten-year-old kid will come up Try to sell you some pencils or chocolate or something You know, these kids are really living on the edge by the way They dress and the fact that they're selling stuff for 50 cents or a buck Well, some of us gringos and expats will just hand them the money and not take what they're selling when you do it They look a little surprised just make it clear They can sell it to the next guy and sometimes if I'm in or near a restaurant, I'll buy him breakfast or lunch Hmm. I digressed again. Sorry about that back to Marcus's email his Spanish learning method

[18:17] He says after you've hired your Spanish tutor and are starting your one-on-one Conversation classes your goal should not be to do it the standard way I suggest you skip working on grammar or verb conjugation You're wasting your time if you do that because you can find that information anywhere online instead focus on Pronunciation ask your tutor that show you how to pronounce vocabulary words in your catalogs flyers and children's textbooks It also helps a lot to practice the pronunciation of nearby places and names on a local map It's a great way to learn about the city and town you're in and the geographical location of those places, too Then he says try to have some fun with your tutor joke around make it a game Then it won't seem like such a drag as you progress You should print out some simple conversational phrases from the internet and ask your tutor how to pronounce them

[19:05] You want to learn things about the town you're in and about how the locals live So have a couple of topics handy topics that revolve around the family members and anytime you're discussing a new topic Make sure you practice the vocabulary and write the words down you haven't heard before So in the meantime your written vocabulary word list will grow you should practice Pronunciation by reading those words out loud daily on your patio or anywhere at home Then I guarantee within two or three weeks. You'll be able to start using what you learned around the neighborhood It's amazing how much you can get across to a person by just using two or even three word phrases not even whole sentences just using little chunks of phrases regardless of the noun word or adjective placement will get your point across and Soon enough you'll find you can even make a joke or two in Spanish

[19:52] So Johnny there it is my learning system the one that's worked so well for me Then he says when you get well enough to speak with the people on the street if you want to really get rolling and formal You can learn grammar or take formal Spanish classes, and it'll all stick Another great aid for all this is getting a Spanish textbook and read the same section out loud a couple of times a day Which is what I did you heard me right? I said you read the same Section out loud the same section so the words and pronunciations stick with all that said unfortunately My Spanish learning system has one big problem. You can't sell it It's too bad too because my system really does work better than any expensive course But hopefully at least some of your listeners will be able to put it to good use Signing off for now Johnny. Keep up the good work

[20:40] Marcos all right Marcos. Thanks for that And I'm sure quite a few listeners who are Spanish dances like me will take advantage of at least certain parts of your process Though I've got to tell you Marcos when you talk about making jokes in Spanish I do that sometimes but man you have to pick your time place and context because Spanish humor is a lot different than gringo Humor it rarely translates There have been plenty of times when I have fired off a quip or a joke in Spanish and nobody picked up on it Nothing worse than a joke that falls flat though on the bright side Latinos can often spot when you're making an effort to tell a joke They won't get it, but they'll laugh because it's the thing to do better than a cold dead silence I'm sure you've been at parties where some supposed VIP or high roller or even some political hack attempts a joke

[21:28] That's not at all funny and the suck-ups around him and the hangers-on will laugh Sometimes a little too hard even if the joke absolutely stinks And then there's always those people who laugh because other people are laughing We all do that once in a while. Hey, nothing wrong with that like a good yawn laughter is contagious and it's good for you All right now our Covid it corner recently I've recognized a little problem with expats who come down here to Latin America Just for vacation or boots on the ground and are gonna pop back to the States right away You know a lot of them have in the back of their minds the idea to purchase some ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and bring it on Home because it's down here in Latin America every drugstore has it and you don't need a prescription Now I got into a little discussion with Captain Mango the other day talking about that very subject Because you see it seems a lot of gringles and ice pats have cold feet or just feel funny

[22:17] Walking into a drugstore asking for something like that, especially without a prescription Here's something you have to know about drugstores here in Latin America now You've heard me say before most people here do not have health care insurance It's only five at most ten percent of the population and that's stretching it However, everyone who does have some kind of health plan they get some coverage sometimes even a hundred percent coverage of pharmaceutical medicine but the catch is insurance companies won't pay for any medicine unless a Prescription is involved. So when you walk into the average drugstore, you'll notice in the larger stores There's an express checkout line and a checkout line for people with health care insurance and man I'll tell you if you got health care insurance and you've got a prescription and you walk into the pharmacy You might as well plan on sitting around for a half hour at least because they'll have to verify your insurance card

[23:07] Call the insurance company make sure you're in good standing and your policy hasn't lapsed because that's the number one problem with health care Insurance here in Latin America turns out just because you have an insurance card doesn't mean you're actually insured I see it all the time people walk into the hospital emergency room or go to the pharmacist Whip out that insurance card only to find out they're behind a couple of payments and thus their insurance is lapsed It's a huge problem details details That's why I always recommend gringos and expats with health care policies pay a year at a time And when you do that, you get a 10 or even 20 percent discount Don't get on the pay-by-the-month plan because chances are you won't get a teaser email from the insurance companies like you would in the states You don't want to find out when you have to use it that you're 15 days late on the payment Hey, you know how insurance companies are if you're one day behind you're not covered but back to Ivermectin

[23:57] So my advice to you gringos and expats coming down to Latin America for a short term couple of weeks a month Whatever and you want to get some Ivermectin and some hydroxychloroquine All you have to do is go on in the net and take a picture of the box that it comes in or just a name And the dosage, you know the dosage, right? Just go into a pharmacy whether you speak Spanish or not show them the name or a picture of the stuff and say Bora bora una caja one box of each, please Though oddly enough since this is Latin America when you go into a pharmacy You can actually buy single pills, of course, they'll be individually sealed in a blister But you can buy them individually or a whole blister pack six or ten or a whole box That's got any number of blister packs in it. Now. Why in the world would someone buy individual? Let's say ampicillins or tetracyclines or amoxicillin tabs? Well, that's because here in Latin America Latinos are notorious for taking pills

[24:45] Just until the symptoms subside in other words when it comes to taking a prescribed course of pills Many Latinos won't buy the whole prescription just enough for a couple days to see how it goes They'll buy maybe a half or a quarter of the necessary amount They'll take them and if the symptoms go away or die down fairly quickly, they won't get the rest of the prescription So what's that about? Well, it's all about the money because even though common medicines down here are vastly cheaper than up in the states If let's say a course of cephalosporin costs 10 bucks down here and 50 or 60 bucks I buy you since the average American makes six to ten times as much as the average Latino Ten bucks to them could be like a hundred bucks is to us So normally down here anyway, if you buy a box of ivermectin a box It'll have maybe five blister packs in it

[25:30] That means if you buy an entire box of ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine There will be way more than the recommended five daily dose treatment protocol. In fact, I mentioned just a couple of weeks ago I helped a gringa get both those items at a local pharmacy. I think I mentioned it Anyway, she bought a box of ivermectin and a box of hydroxychloroquine each had a number of blister strips in it Turns out with just those two boxes. She had enough for seven complete treatments In other words good for seven covid it victims to be taken of course at the very onset of the symptoms Initial symptom usually a sore raspy throat then comes fever and fatigue You don't wait you take the stuff within the first day or two And if you do it's almost a guarantee you'll never end up in the hospital look up the debts and stats You'll see it's true. So anyway when she went home

[26:16] She put them in her clear plastic makeup bag in the stowed luggage and she went through two Plain changes to layovers and got them home to New Jersey. No problem at all So then what might happen if customs or TSA pulls them out of your luggage Well, unless you make a big scene and start a fight over it They'll either confiscate them case closed or let you go through with them Oh and what excuse was she gonna use if they did quiz her there's always that possibility, right? She says I won't lie I'll tell him I went to the pharmacy and asked him what I should take if I get those flu like symptoms that are Going around. Hey, I like it now. That's one smart gringa Of course if she wanted to be a little less diplomatic if TSA quizzed her she might have said Oh, so you want to know about this medicine. Well, I'm performing a public service I understand most you TSA guys need to be dewormed

[27:04] Hmm sounds right to me. So anyway, if you're coming down to Latin America, don't let anybody tell you that you need a prescription you don't though as I said earlier there is a line for people who have prescriptions because a Percentage of those folks will be getting reimbursed from their insurance companies and they get them to cover it There has to be a legit prescription from a legit doc Oh, and by the way If you can't come up with a good picture of a box of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin Send me an email the expat files at gmail.com and I'll send you a photo You've been listening to the expat files living in Latin America If you need some help with your own plan B We can schedule a one-on-one phone or Skype consult Just send me an email the expat files at gmail.com And if you want to get on the waiting list for my next week-long expat Insider seminar in Central America where you're guaranteed to get a two to five year head start on your plan B

[27:54] Send me an email the expat files at gmail.com. No spamos